Shadowrun Pub
General => Reviews => Topic started by: kv on January 16, 2006, 02:24:21 AM
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Hey All;
Ever since I heard that they were doing an MMORPG for Dungeons and Dragons, I've been holding my breath- I was so afraid that they were going to screw it up, but I had my fingers, toes and everything else crossed hoping that it would at least be fun, if not great/awesome.
With Tycho's post over on Penny Arcade, and my already brimming enthusiasm to play, Saturday Ruski and I went out to try and get some beta test keys. None of the EBs or Gamestops near my hosue had them, so we came home, I ordered it online, and got a betakey in email a few minutes later.
So I downloaded, updated, and let Ruski play a little, and then I played a little too.
Before I throw out what I think about it, I was wondering what everyone had heard, what thier hopes/fears about it were, and if I'm the only one who was looking forward to this.
-kv
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I've been playing the pen and paper version so long that I think they'll be hard pressed to get that feeling right. And another thing I think they messed up on was that they did it in eberon, not Fearun. I signed up for the beta just for giggles, but I really doubt I'll play it
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If you buy an advanced copy of the game, you automatically get a beta key- I wanted the game anyway, so we went looking, but ended up buying it online.
Still got into the beta, but only for the 10 days my trial key lets me. After that, I have to beg and plead to get back into it, even though I know the game system and computers in general pretty decently.
What makes you doubt that you'll play it?
-kv
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I reallt doubt anything can beat WoW right now. PLus I'm waiting on Warhammer Online. That's gonna be my next game
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Okay: in a nutshell; here's my feelings:
1) Score! You can sneek by, or talk your way out of stuff, and not get 'dinged' on EXP for it. EXP is reward for compleating a quest, not 'farming'
2) Score! Farming is worthless! Killing stuff dosn't make you more powerfull, it just saps some of your hitpoints. (that don't regenerate unless you rest)
3) Score! Magic-users must conserve their spells; because their spellpoints don't automaticly regenerate. Horrah for actuall stratagy over button mashing madness.
4) Bogus! User interface is a little rough.
5) Score! Instanced doungens mean you don't have to sit and wait for a particular critter to 'respawn' because someone who is 40 levels higher is farming that spot for some worthless trinket.
6) GM 'voiceover' big SCORE! I like how the GM describes things to you as you encounter them. add the built-in voice over IP; and it's like one big tabletop.
7) Bogus! Single player expereance is extreamly limited. if you want to do anything; you'll have to do it as a group. there isn't much to do solo-adventure wise. (most instances are going to be too much for a single PC)
8) Bogus! Wish the player custimisation was a little better. (got spoiled on the creation of toons in city of heros and EQ2) it's not bad. (on par with warcraft I'd say) but I wish you could play with height and such some more.
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all and all; i'm not sure if i'm going to play it past the beta. it looks like it could be cool; but I don't know if it's compleatly awsome enough to capture my attention away from the other demands on my time. *shrug* but who knows. perhaps I'll find some extra time, or get super bored or something, and end up playing it non-stop for eternety.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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damnit, gotta retype. anyway, You completly sold me on not wanting to play. It sounds liek gameplay is slow if you gotta rest to gain back hp. Sometimes I like to mindlessly kill mobs. Help to vent off frustion. And If I'm not getting xp for it then swhat's the point. I also like to solo alot. I tend to prefer to be a loner. So, definatly not playing. ;D
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*shrug* then My review was accurate. if it helps you make a decision one way or the other; I'm happy I posted it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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yep, and I thank you :)
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You my friend; are most welcome.
Really, it is I who should be thankfull to you; for giving me this oppertunity to be of service to you.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
*Bow*
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uh, huhuhu, you said service
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Dear lord you two, get a room for all of this romance. ;) But seriously, one of these days I might get an MMORPG. One of these days...
Gabriel
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I'm in the beta for DnD Online. it's not bad.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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but if you want to play D&D why not just play the pen and paper game
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Dear lord you two, get a room for all of this romance. ;) But seriously, one of these days I might get an MMORPG. One of these days...
Gabriel
NNOOOO
MMORPG = EVIL!!!
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No doubt about that. the evilest type of evil...
actually; I played DDO and got sick of it. (I made a fighter, and walked through the first 'training' levels, then went back and made a thief, and died 100,000,000 times on the first one. it was pissing me off that the other classes 'didn't work' and I was about to give up on the game entirely; untill I tryed to actually use my class skills... to SNEEK my way through the level. made an amazing diffrence. Now I need to go back and try to do them with a mage or bard or something else. I was hating it; but I'm actually starting to like it now...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
(Still don't know if it's worth buying though)
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I had the same experience as Ruski... well, maybe a little different.
I made a fighter first, which was fun, so I made a ranger to check out the class differences- which was also a lot of fun. So I made myself a paladin (my personal favorite class), which usually gets the most screwed in conversion to video-game format.
But honestly, it was fun to play a paladin. I liked it enough that I made myself a thief character, which is MUCH more difficult to play.
If you haven't read any of the reviews that talk about the first mission, then... well, you have to go through this cave that has a few kobolds to find 'the source of evil.'
As a fighter, you hack and slash your way through the level, taking out each kobold and bringing them to you one at a time so you can handle them. Rangers and fighters are both really similar.
Now with a thief, you have to change tactics... as Ruski and I both found out. You have to sneak, stick to the shadows, avoid combat, and backstab when combat is necessary, and then melt back into the shadows. I actually had more fun playing the thief and trying to figure out how to avoid combat than I did as a paladin or fighter, running through it.
Puzzles are also fun- I don't know how far Ruski got in the quests, but there's a few where you have to figure out a puzzle to continue, and it's actually fun to figure out how these things work to move past them.
All in all, with instanced dungeons (that make me feel like I'm making a difference, rather than the WOW-effect of me being one of six hundred newbies trying to get the spidersilk glands or rat pellets), puzzles, and gameplay, I'm liking D&D online, even though it's set in Ebberon, which isn't my favorite world. (Although it's very possible that they could set up games for Grayhawk or Forgotten Realms just as easily)
-kv
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any news on PVP?
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No PVP. they are pulling the same card that city of heros did.
"Heros need to work together. PVP is contary to that, so we aren't including it at release, but we will add a 'duel' feature at a later date"
Personally, I'm glad that I don't have to worry about swinging my sword and hitting my party members. always made rolling a '1' exciting when playing 'real' DnD.
oh crap... which of my friends did I just hit with that wayward 2-handed longsword swing... and do they have enough hitpoints to live long enough to forgive me for it!!!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Reminds me of that scene on "The Gamers" when the Barbarian tries to knock the mage out. Not good to roll a critical hit when trying to stun a friend. Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Gabriel
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never saw that, was it any good?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Actually, I had any number of friends who were enough of an asshole to attack me and kill my character if I accidently hit them with a critical miss.
Come to think of it, I'm glad we don't game with some of them anymore.
-kv
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never saw that, was it any good?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
It's one of the funniest movies I've ever seen, but ONLY because I am a gamer. They pretty much hit every D&D cliche' I could think of. They even had the guy who didn't show up for the game, so his PC just kind of wondered around and was forgotten about. If I hadn't spent all of the X-Mas money my granny got me on porn already, I would have gotten a copy the next time I went to the gaming store.
Gabriel
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oh god! We almost pissed ourselves watching that! But anyway, you don't have to make PVP like that Ruski. You can set it up to where there could be 2 warring factions or just an instance that is PVP only
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Maybe they will make an alignment-ase PVP section. Something like only evil or certain neutral characters can initiate a PVP. Good aligned PC's could only PVP vs. evil characters and only defend themselves from others. Who knows.
Gabriel
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Like Dark Age of Camalot? Never really worked for me.
although it wouldn't be too hard to add an oposing alignment addition later, like city of villians.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Please don't mention DAoC around Jester. You don't know what those dark years were like for him. ;)
Gabriel
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hey that game was great. Then World of Warcraft came out :) lvl 48 undead Rogue baby
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OH no, we mentioned his addiction. :bob: Someone call for the intervention. ;)
Gabriel
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lol, I don't need an intervention because I'm not addicted. I firmly belive in hangin out with real people instead of digital avitars.
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Hmm... I think we qualify as the digital avatar type of people...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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And isn't denial the first sign of guilt???
Gabriel
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I knew you would say that. But if I was so addicted do you think I would be making plans for a visit? Or get tricked into going t see a chick flick?
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wow is pretty cool only thing i dont like is no house that players own or player owned guild halls
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I really don't see a need for any of that. So it really doesn't bother me.
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I knew you would say that. But if I was so addicted do you think I would be making plans for a visit? Or get tricked into going t see a chick flick?
Yeah yeah yeah. There you go making sense again. You bastard. ;)
Gabriel
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hehehe, you know it :jester:
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So, Back to D&D Online....
Gabriel
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Played as a Sorcerer the other day.
It's tough to raton out my spellpoints. and going toe-to-hoe with monsters dosn't work very well at all.
I like it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Toe to hoe??? Um... what kind of game IS this???
Gabriel
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the kind where da' bitchez getz beat down by da' pimp!
or well, at least I can fight like one guy. if he's not too onrey, and probibly have a nice couple of hitpoints to rub together after the encounter...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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LOL!!!! Foshizzle!!
Gabriel
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mostly, Toe-to-Hoe combat, is like Toe-to-Toe combat, except that in the latter, we are assuming that you are fighting fellow humans, and the former is more of a derogatory slant on your oponents.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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As opposed to Hoe-to-Hoe, which is only available on the adult channels. ;D
-kv
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Or certan parts of the sprawl.
it's free if you drive out to see it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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aaaaanyway, do you have to memorize spells like the pen and paper version?
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Kinda. You have a spell book, and from there you have several memorised spells, and from thoes; you can cast them untill you are blue in the face, or untill you run out of spell points.
Sorcers have a more limited selection of spells, but can cast any of them at any time (untill they run out of spellpoints)
No changing spells between missions for the sorcerers though... they just got what they've got, and are stuck with it.
priests are like mages, they have to 'prepare' a select numbe rof spells from a list of pretty much every spell ever. from there, they can cast them untill they run out of spellpoints.
pretty ballanced really.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, priests can cast heal at any time, taking one of thier prepared spells and dumping it to free the slot. Which is REALLY nice.
-kv
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Well, all that means is they have a 'free slot' that's got heal in it 24/7
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, so they can prepare whatever spells they want, but at any time, they can cast heals to help out. Very VERY helpful. You have no idea how helpful until you try a group without a healer. ;D
-kv
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Healers never get no' luvin.
all they get is complaints.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I do. But then, I use Sexual Healing....
:::Insert Barry White Music:::
Gabriel, elf, lover
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HAHAHAHAHA
"DOOD! 1 N33D H34L7H!"
"HEAL ME PLZ!"
<Insert barry white>
"NOOOOOO DOOD! PUT UR PANTS ON!"
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lol, every mmo I've ver played healers are essential to any party
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You know, with customized character creation bwing what it is, I could probably make my character LOOK like Barry White too.
Gabriel
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Yea, but in all the MMO's i've played, when you are a healer, everyone hates you.
"DOOD! YOU LET ME DIE!"
It's like it's my fault that they tryed to take on 50 things that are twice their level.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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LOL, well, only rookie players always blame it on the healer. Any vet knows who's fault it actually is and will take the blame for it.
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*shrug*
well, vets are cool; but they are few and far between.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I'm just happy to play a game where I can't get ganked for being a 'n00b'
WTF? u ned help 4 a Q? OMG, ur n00b!
Everyone needs help on EVERY quest, so it's not a big deal to do it as a party. Plus, at low levels there's no Ressurection Penalty, although apparently there is one at later levels.
-kv
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Hmm... interesting.
I wonder what the penalty is?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
hope it's not -1 constitution... LOL
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No, I think it's an experience penalty. I never really made it far beyond 2nd level, so I don't know the specifics for sure.
-kv
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I'm just happy to play a game where I can't get ganked for being a 'n00b'
WTF? u ned help 4 a Q? OMG, ur n00b!
Everyone needs help on EVERY quest, so it's not a big deal to do it as a party. Plus, at low levels there's no Ressurection Penalty, although apparently there is one at later levels.
-kv
just wait, the A holes will pop up when the game gets goin. I know this from experiance
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You know, I never did like resuraection spells. kind of makes death, old age, and the afterlife kind of meaningless, don't they??
Gabriel
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you've always been about the hardcore if you die you can't play that guy anymore thing. Let me tell you, that would piss ALOT of people off after working so hard on their charecters. Especially if it was lag death
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well, you have to realise that there are differing goals there.
1) in table-top RPG you can get creative with your running away to save your own skin, and if you do die, the GM will normally alow you to roll up a new guy, and dump you into the adventure somehow.
2) in an MMORPG, the goal of the company is to keep you playing for as long as possible. a feat you can't pull off, if you are dead.
now, they made some real improvements with the whole 'get exp for compleating a quest and not just for grinding mobs'
but still, the primary focus of the game is combat.
with the tabletop, i've gone whole sessions without drawing my sword and trying to kill something.
i've even gone a couple of sessions without taking dammage.
*shrug*
if you fight enough, you will eventually die.
if you have a party, they give you a good chance of stopping the bleeding at 0 HP, and then binding you up after the fight.
*shrug*
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Hey Jester, I know what you're saying and I do agree with you that it would piss off a lot of people. I do still think that dead should be dead. But I wonder if there will ever be a well-done compromise for this issue???
Gabriel
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Shadowrun I think has a good answer for it.
Dead is dead; but you can buy your way out of it if you've got enough money.
DnD and other associated products try to do the same thing, but on a less sucessfull scale.
it's suppose to cost about 100,000 GP to rez a PC, assuming you can find someone to drag your rotting hoop to the temple.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
in all my DnD days, I've only ever sucessfully got one PC raised.
he died saving one of my buddies, and afterwards, my buddy went and dragged him to a temple.
*shrug*
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yea, and it's also alot easier to get killed in an MMO. I died twice yesterday
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if you do thoes big 40 man raids, you can die twice in like tweanty minutes.
buying the farm is really easy in thoes games. there's not much of a penalty for most of them, so it's typically not that big of a deal.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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yup
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and if there's no penalty for death... what's the real risk?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Wasting time I'd have to say.
And that's maybe not the biggest threat of all, if you're already playing MMORPGs.
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But, from the game maker's point of view... if they make the PC's waste too much time, they'll stop playing.
and ultimatly, I think the point of the game is to keep them playing, and paying for it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Like I said, death should count. It would keep you on your toes.
Gabriel
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I bet there'd be a lot less problem with power leveling if buying the farm made you start from scratch...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, so there are drawbacks to being too realistic, and drawbacks to being too "gamey" as well. One of ther easons I prefer P&P gaming.
Gabriel
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P&P is much easyer to flow back and forth from campy and silly to bleak and realistic.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Very true.
Gabriel
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oh, very much so. I'd wrather play P&P any day. Hey gabe, did you get that e-mail I sent you on Warjammer online?
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Yes I did, but nothing recently. ANy news about it yet???
Gabriel
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not much. you can sign up for the newsletter at www.warhammeronline.com and have a chance at getting in the beta. there's a little info there now too
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Look out Old World! Here comes Gabriel the RATCATCHER!!!!!! ;)
Gabriel
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lol, I'm lookin to be a dwarven witch hunter
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Now THAT would be a bad-ass PC. Gives me a few ideas though...
Gabriel
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lol, that's my char in our current game. Called him Blarn Stone. Poor little bugger has to put up with 2 elves. one's a finger wiggler and the other likes to shoot pointy little sticks. Damn tree huggin pansies