Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => SR3 (Shadowrun 3rd Edition) General Discussion => Topic started by: Capt_North on January 28, 2006, 01:30:32 PM
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Just got Man & Machine, and theres some cool stuff and good rule clearing junky stuff in that.. but reading the Nanotech section gave lots of ideas.. Nano implants might be some rather good things, for Vamps, least from the undeads point of view, since they dont really seem to suffer from bio reject, least from what i've read.. could be simple as the oxy-rush system for vamps, with the nanites supplying oxygen they dont have to worry about running out under water and going dormant.. which could lead to trouble for hunters looking for easy targets in submerged vamps..
And, their bodies being dead they can say... stuff in the basic materials into themselves for nanites to use to reproduce more. Kinda scary when think bout, possibly even make it so one could cancel out the rejection factor many vamps have with cyber parts.. I may have to check into it myself... well.. once find a beta/delta cyber clinic that doesnt take shots at vamps on sight......
One other thing.. is they didnt really discuss the possibilitys of a Gray Goop incident..
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um silly question if they are undead that means they dont breath so how can they drown underwater if they dont need to breath
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Vampires if are submerged under water for to long and cut off from oxygen go into a dormant state which makes them completely vulnerable. Its easy for them to sink as they arent bouyant any more which makes crossing water a problem, with that they get all the advantages of an air tank without lugging it around. Traps the players i've had on vamps included trapping them in flooded sewers, even pit traps where the sides are smooth and the bottoms full of water, from there they can pick them off at leisure or what ever. with that mod they can just wait for hunter to come back and get them as they like.
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I don't know if adding O2 into their bloodstream would help them much though... and who knows what a vampire system would do to nanites... I can't imagine them working together perfectly...
but if you know a vampire that would want to test them out on him/her self, I bet I could find a company willing to 'sponcer' it...
-RuskiFace the PIrate
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True.. but with a corp sponsor, there also generally comes the "We own your ass for the rest of your life" and for a vampire.... thats a REALLY long time....
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So... be the vamp that owns the corp!
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well, if you didn't want to go that route, there's always the good ol' fashoned 'work' for your money.
and by work, i mean, rob a corperation, and let them sponcer you THAT way.
then I'll find a street doc who wants to publish something, and let him install them.
probibly do the work for free, but you'll have to sit arround for a couple of days so that he can watch you:
A) Explode
B) suffer bio-rejection
C) Run faster/jump higher when the oxy-rush is activated
D) have nothing much happen
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Ok, I'm going to be the killjoy here (and for once I do hate to do it) but vampires aren't undead in Shadowrun. They are humans and metahumans who have contracted HMHVV. In fact, as far as I recall, except forGhost/Specters & Shedim, there are no undead in Shadowrun. Even ghouls are alive.
Now as far as nonites go, wouldn't they suffer from biorejection if they were anything but transient nanites? A nanite factory would be immediately purged, and so would some of the other nanite-assisting tech. You might be able to get some injections of nanites in a free-floating condition, but anything else would just get purged.
Gabriel
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That was my guess; but here is where it gets interesting in my mind:
does a vampire's system use oxygen the same way we do?
would getting transiant oxy-rush injected into them really help?
And, if it did work, how long would they stay active in the vampire's system?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yes, a Vampire uses Oxygen just the same. However, when in a dormant state underwater or cut off from oxygen they still lose Essence, so a vampire can "drown" but rather than from asphyxiation, essence loss.
Gabe, you ARE a killjoy...
'Course, if you hadnae said eet ah wuld 'ave.
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Yes, a Vampire uses Oxygen just the same. However, when in a dormant state underwater or cut off from oxygen they still lose Essence, so a vampire can "drown" but rather than from asphyxiation, essence loss.
Gabe, you ARE a killjoy...
'Course, if you hadnae said eet ah wuld 'ave.
um wouldnt that be starve to death from essense lose rather than drowning
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BAM!!! And Mercy gets a Karma point. You know, Mercy, you keep posting ONLY when you want to sneaks tuff like that in and you're going to have more krama than Ruski. ;)
Gabriel
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That depends, you can starve to death, but how many people do you know that starved to death underwater? Somebody finds a dead vampire under the water they're gonna say, "Wow, this poor schmuck drowned to death."
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Well after they starve themselves essence style, perhaps they'll take a big lungfull of water to seal the deal?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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How long does it take for them to gack from essence starvation?
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Don't they lose 1 karma per day???
Gabriel
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when essence = 0, it's the only death that vampires can't regenerate from...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I mean the rate of essence loss. how much an hour, day, month, year, minute, seconds, ect?
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Don't they lose 1 karma per day???
Gabriel
I thought it was that.
Gabriel
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That was my understanding as well.
-RF
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1 Essence a day, you mean?
-kv
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well, in the RP rules, they could burn a karma to keep one essence.
*shrug* go figure.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, it's one essence per day, and that essence isn't necessarily from "blood." You won't find a vampire breaking into a blood bank to steal packets of blood, they need to steal life force from a living thing through an emotional connection.
Other than that, however, Vampires are nasty critters. Nanotech might help them but in the end, the massive bonuses from Improved Attributes makes them scary enough.
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They can do some sorta comma thing and drop it down to one a week if I remember correctly... but they aren't doing anything but sleep durring that time...
-RF
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*nods* one reason i liked using them in the little FF kinda game, most the vamps they were against were new licks, kinda like the runner who just got a beta body ad thinks he's hottest on the streets only to find he is as hot as liquid oxygen.
Biggest threat was one who had Cybered parts using Cybernecromancy, figured it out not to long after i got the cybertech book, helped counter the rejection with-out all the problems, at least, some of them. They found a vamp with a move by wire system is a really nasty thing, till you nail one on the back with a sledge and mess the system up, then.. well, fave joke from a comic..
"Whats white, and goes Snap, Crackle, Pop?"
Your collarbone!
figured with all the strength, (normal vamp and cybered junk) the seizures were enough to make them crack their own bones. Runners didnt off him, ended up selling him to highest bidding corp for research.. Good idea, though if had been able to continue the Game they might have gone.. "damn... maybe that wasnt a good idea"
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Err... Never read the Cybertechnology book. Unless you're talking about Cybermancy, and getting negative essence, but keep in mind that most of a vampire's power comes from essence. What keeps the regeneration from kicking in? Most of my knowledge comes from 3rd edition.
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Yea, my understanding was that as soon as you cut the meat to put the chrome in, it would heal up.
you might be able to get some custom cultured vampire bioware worked in there with some gene thearipy.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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um just out of curisty couldnt the vamps suck essance out of local mirine life
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i dont know much of the 3rd edit, and only little of second.. lotta this i worked on my own.
their ability to get "extra" essence allowed them to get a good bit of cyber, but they had to keep a constant amount of essence in order to cover the drain, once they lost to much they would lose the lowest costing peice of cyberware matching the amount they were short via bio rejection.
They were able to "force" their bodies to accept the cyberware, the regeneration suffered a bit, their bodies didnt heal as fast, and the materials cost alot to get ones that the body wouldnt reject as easy so to speak. used majorly modified version of cybermancy to retard the healing and force the body to work with the parts, also left them a little "Cranky" from aches and pains, body wanting to do what it wasnt allowed to, and also made them use essence faster then normal (each day basicly used 1 essence to keep going each day, like this they used 1 plus .5 per each peice of ware, rounded up, so 3 peices of ware ment they were paying 3 essence each day to keep going)
in short, it was messy, left them very twitchy, and VERY hungry. made for decent threat that city or other would pay runners to clean up.
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including other vampires
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*shrug* well, if it worked for your campaign I'm happy for you, but I don't think i'll let it into mine.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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There is also a game-balance issue to be thought about. Vampires HAVE to have counters to their powers and abilities. If not, you have uber-NPC's running around and actually interacting with the PC's.
Gabriel
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well, not like there's any shortage of that if you want it anyways.
how about a polymorphing dragon as a companion?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Agh! Need I reiterate the horrors of allowing a PC to be a shapeshifter?
"What's the damage code on that laser?"
"Moderate"
"Okay, I walk through it."
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Yea. I don't let my PC's play Vampires, ghouls, shape-shifters, or any other critters.
they'd have to beg and plead and have a really good dahm'd reason for even talking me into playing a meta variant cyclops, goblin, or soforth.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, Ghoul isn't so bad. The shapeshifter's are "teh Ub3|2" though.
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*shrug* in my campaigns I haven't bothered to infect any of my PC's with anything like that. although I suppose I could...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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well, for an uber monster they handled it fairly well.
Frontal assault didnt work well so they wore him down by keeping him from feeding, wouldnt actually attack but do all they can to stop it from getting a meal, and damaging some of its cyberware. essence drained so fast that it had to dump a portion of its parts, then went after it when it was weak (well, compaired to how it was before)
They handled it fairly well, though to keep it from getting essnce they split into groups and some figured "acceptable losses" when it was just bout to put its fangs into someone.
It was strong, but it made them work together, plan, coordinate, and something i like to see THINK, but hey, im just weird like that i guess.
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A 'shifter with cyber?
how/why?
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while possible a shape shifter would have to be cracked to have cyber ware considering the major hits they take on essense lost
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No, he's talking about a vampire, not a shapeshifter. I was talking about the shapeshifter.
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My GM had me roll for SURGE. I was playing a physad, so I had a full 6 points of essence and nailed the roll. Then, he had me roll to find out how many points worth of SURGE I'd take. I roled 6's for both edges and flaws and he let me roll again. He then had me a choice of selecting her SURGE effects or rolling for them. I decided to roll.
End result, my Elven adept gained: Thermographic vision, retractible claws, high & low freqency hearing, a bony ridge on her forhead, blue skin, blue fur, a sensitive system, blue-on-blue eyes(Think Dune), and a vestigial tail.
As far as I know, I'm the only character in the party who was affected by SURGE.
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Well, I bet your blue beast dune-eyed freak was a real blast at partys... LOL
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Hey! She looks more like Nightcrawler than Beast!
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and nightcrawler was always such a popular guy...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I know Captain Britain broke 'Crawler's leg because he thought the elf was moving in on Meggan.
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Wow, I woulda picked the effects.
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You know, AJ, I have to say I loved the fact that they actually drew Nightcrawler with a cast on his leg for about 6 issues after that. Kind of nice to see characters actually acknowledgin damage in a comic book. Oh, and I am giving you a point of Karma for being the ONLY person I've ever talked to who read an issue of the original Excalibur Comic. ;)
Gabriel
PS - Have you had any mega-corps come after your SURGEd PC yet?? Remember, they collect changlings for "research"
Gabriel
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Hey, thanks. I learned about Excalibur because Kitty was my favorite and I scoured the comic shops for back issues with her. Once I started reading Excalibur, I liked the title enough I hunted down all but the last 22 issues. I even found Weird War III, Mojo Mayham, and the other Annuals and special editions.
As for my SURGEd Character, no, they haven't. We've been stuck in the metaplanes for most of the runs. Besides, if she's wearing a hat and keeping her tail hidden, she looks like a Night One.
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You know, Excalibur was the first comic I ever collected, and I have all of the original issues, and doubles of the first five. Not that the comics are worth any real money, but I like them none the less. And if you haven't seen the last issues, try to find them. Carlos Pachenco started drawing them at the end and he did some really good work. He even brough back Captain Britain's engineering background for a while. And then he killed Captian Britain's powers, and that was that.
Anyway, back on topic: If you would like, I have some information on a run concerning changlings that you might enjoy playing. Of course, if you aren't running your group, that might not really be a bgood thing to look at. Let me know if you would like the synopsis forwarded to you so you can pass it by your GM.
Gabriel
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hehe.. only got to read a couple excaliber comics... personally spent most my money collecting deadpool and Agent X, have almost the complete series of both,
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Well, I'm not GMing, so I don't think looking at the whole thing, I could pass it on. I don't know how far in advance he's planning, though.
And as for comics, I buy 'em for the stories, not necessarily for the collector value. I like pulling them out and looking stuff up for fanfics too much to leave them in their sleeves for life. If theres one that costs more than I'm willing to pay, I'll look for it as part of a graphic novel. (Love the Essential books)
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I just do my shopping at barnes & Nobil or Borders. I love the graphic novels. Hurts a bit to pay $20 for a comic book, but they are good reading anyhew.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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At least with the graphic novels you get several issues at once.
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Yea, that's my feeling behind it. I hate waiting for the story arc to finish. I'd much rather just grab the whole thing at once.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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That's how I got some issues that are worth 60+ dollars. That or buying the Classic X-men rereleases. Different cover, but same story. And much cheaper. Sometimes they had an extra story tacked on at the end.
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have you ever actually been able to sell any of thoes for the posted value?
I use to collect 'magic: the addiction' cards. me and all my friends were into it.
a card worth $80 was more like worth $8 to us. that was the going rate, it was easyer to trade cards for cards, the actual purchace price for 'ultra-rare' cards, was always quite a bit less than posted.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Like I said, I bought them for the stories, so no, I never tried selling them. I like having the actual books to look through for details when I'm writing fanfics, rather than relying on second hand info over the 'net. That way, if I need to quote something, I can.
Although I do know someone who has enough older Magic cards he figure's he can sell them off to pay for his future kids' college. Don't remember who it was or if he was even married at the time, but I do remember him saying that.
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*shrug* all my friends use to say that.
we all put in about the same.
buy a pack a day, on average. at $2.50 each, it adds up in actual purchace value over the two years or so we played it.
that's what? $1,825 in money put out. times about four guys...
yea, anyways, if you take the 'resale value' of all your cards, it looks like something akin to 10 times that.
when people started getting out of it though, and it comes to actually selling your cards... even people who want them, don't want them bad enough to pay the list price in whatever magazine is currently toting the highest price.
you can sell rare cards for about a quarter each on E-bay, but that's about it.
maybe a buck and a quarter, if it's something super old.
but even the cards "Worth $2,000 !!!" go for about a hundred bucks.
I bought out my friends to the tune of $50 each, and gave all my cards to my little brother when he expressed an intrest.
I think he gave them to someone else. *shrug* oh well. was fun while it lasted.
I think comics are the same way though, even if it says that it's worth $2,000, I bet you can find it on E-Bay for 1/10th of that.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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*Shrugs* Like I said. I go for the stories, not the resale value. If I can get the same story cheaper (ie. getting a reprint or a graphic novel) I will. It also doesn't deprive people going at it for the monetary value of getting what they want. If it's a good issue, I'd probably drop the value in half rereading it.
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And besides, you can loan out trades to your friends to read. That's how I got a bunch of people hooked on The Preacher.
Gabriel
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Never read that one.
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I HIGHLY recomend it. It is not super-hero based, but a damn good read. Well, it is a damn good read if you aren't very religious, or easily offended, or get squeemish, or don't like vulgar language and TONS of sex. But if you're wiz with all of that, then go get the first trade.
Gabriel
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does it have red hats?
-RuskiFace the Pirate.
kuz you could use nanotech to like... build one out of hair geneticly if you wanted to.
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And thus Ruski pre-empted my approaching comment of "Subject people" ;)
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can Nanotech be set up to modify hair?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Why not? reprogram the genes regulating hair growth...
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You wouldn't even need gene regulation. Remember, nano operates ont eh atomic level. All it would need to grow more hair would be any molecule it could find. It could literally grow extra hair onto existing strands using nothing but the air around the hair.
Gabriel
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Hey, for a helmet add some kind of hardening agent to bond the strands together.
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now that would be a slitch to comb out.
perminant helmet hair.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Again, if it's nano, you don't need anythign but tht nano. It will make everything it needs.
Gabriel
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Well, if you were a hair salon, you'd probibly want a nanite hive built into thoes chair hair dryer things, so you could make more for the next customer.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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A fine mist of nano and a few hours wearing a hair net and you could have any hairstyle you wanted. Can you imagine the Shadowrunning opertunities for a set-up like that???
Gabriel
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I could see myself having a lot of fun hacking interesting hair styles into the upload protocal...
I bet a lot of balding buisnessmen go there though. Nanites could build you hair. if it fell out in a month or so, no big deal. take your big fat company paycheck down to the hair stylist, and get it done again.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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What about the Faces? A new program, a new hairstyle, and the guy you just conned out of his lifesavings would walk right past.
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Yea, most people that do the gig-saw face bit have a selection of wigs to choose from anyways though.
This service would probibly cater more to housewives.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Or how about reprogramming the nano for other, subdermal prossesses like bone etching or even chemical rearrangement. Nothing like getting a nice hairdo and a free brainwashing and marking for free.
Gabriel
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Could they use nanotech to build bone lacing or dermal plating with a lower essence cost?
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If I'm not mistaken, that how they already do it. See in SR, nanotech has been around for years, it was only with the experiments by Deus that nanotech got its BIG boost into what it is right now. In fact, the only way you could weave nerves with cyber is through nanites.
Gabriel
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ah aha. Guess I assumed it was invasive surgery, similar to Wolverine's Adamantium
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Actually if you read Man and Machine, they really get into the explanations of this stuff. In fact, I've talked to a few fire-arms instructors and cops about the gun rules, and they are VERY accurate as far as it goes. Having that in mind, I have to assume that the medical background info in the rulebooks is just as weel researched. So take that for what it's worth. Oh, and in 2060, almost no surgery leaves a scar. Medical lasers are such usefull things...
Gabriel
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As I believe I've mentioned elsewhere, I don't have most of the extra books. Although I did get around to picking up the Companion book for 3rd ed. I already had the core book, and I can get a better balance of skills/abilities/resources for an adept using the point system than the priority system.
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Hey just let me know if you want to get an e-version of those books. I'd be happy to send them over AIM.
Gabriel
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...might be a problem as I don't use AIM. I do, however have email, but you should probably send a message through through the forum when you do. I have problems with junk mail, so I have to keep my filter on exclusive.
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Um, I don't think e-mail is going to work on this. These files are in the 100+ Meg range. At least most of them. That's a bit too robust to go voer an e-mail.
Gabriel
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What about compressing it as a ZIP file?
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I've tried, and Acrobat files dont' really compress. Hmmm. Well damn. I could always burn you a CD and snail mail it, but it can be a bit creepy sending mailing addies to people you've just met on a BBS. Do you have any P2P trading programs??
Gabriel
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dunno. My own pc is 1) not currently hooked up to the internet and 2) on the fritz. I'm not sure what kind of programs are on my parents' computer and it's kinda frowned on at the college. I'm hoping to get a new laptop, but until I get the money...
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You could always hire yourself out as a freelance medical research subject. ;) I hear that pays really well.
Gabriel
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Well, there is a PRACS in town. dunno if they're accepting females, though.
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PRACS????
Gabriel
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They test different drugs.
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Ah. Well hell, there you go. Get wired for money. You gotta love that.
Gabriel
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Nanotech is a scary subject. If they can figure out how to make a self-producing nanite outside a hive environment we could all be in trouble.
Take the nanotech plague example: Say you design nanites and program them to decompose everything. They then begin to reproduce, making a moving storm or plague that just eats everything. A nasty thought, that.
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Replicators.
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grey goop situation.
nanites that can replicate programmed wrong, you tell them to "deconstruct" this and leave out a good stop situation so they keep deconstructing everyting around and just keep going..
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Yep, yep!
Nanites are quite handy for on the run though, you get a few nasty wounds (Moderate or lower) and they help patch you up right quick. I've seen a troll heal from a gunshot wound in 3 days. Crazy, eh?
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I can do that without nanites!! I just don't wanna. ;)
Gabriel
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if you've got enough newyen, you can pay a mage to face the drain and get healed up even faster.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Just out of curiosity, what does it cost to pay a mage to take that hit?
A couple of grand and a bottle of asprin?
-kv
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Bottle of absinthe is more like it.
Gabriel
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Depends on the severity of your wounds, really and the talent of the Magician. I'd recommend having a Bear shaman help you instead as they'd be more willing and inherently better at it. Remember, the caster will want money up front, regardless of how well they healed you. They will probably charge you more money based on having higher cyberware or a bunch of drug abuse (lower essence) Keep in mind also that a force 3 Treat Serious wounds will ONLY heal 3 boxes of damage. Good luck finding any magician that will cast a Force 10 Heal or Treat Deadly Wounds spell. Even then, they probably won't get enough successes on their test to heal you and resist the drain. In the end, it's better to have someone with First Aid treat you on the spot and then look for magical healing.
As for the rates, those really depend on the nature of your campaign (Dead Broke or Monty Haul-style) I'd say charge 500 nuyen per force of the spell times a multiplier for the damage level of the wound. So a light wound would cost 500 flat while a force 3 moderate heal would cost 3000. A deadly wound might end up costing 50,000 or more.
Don't forget that only nanotech or surgery will repair Stress points to cyberware. Bioware can be healed by magic though.
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Yup. but if you are in a hurry, and have the money; nothing gets you patched up between mini-runs like a trip to the shaman.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Anchored Treat Potions are nice too.
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nearly as expencive as the heal though.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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More, really.
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but, it's tough to talk the bear shamen to come allong with you in your backpack.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Precisely.
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but if you were a social adept... perhaps you could pull it off?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yes, and with my Backpack of Holding.
Additionally, you might find it interesting to note that all the magic in Earthdawn that affected time and space was Illusion magic. There was this one spell that created a doorway between two places. One could liken that to a rift that transports objects through the metaplanes and appears through another rift. Of course, none of the Young Races in the 6th world have discovered any Time-Space magic yet.
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thank goodness.
i'm happy mages have to blow up my door to get into my house like everyone else.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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The point was that Illusionist, ostensibly the "weakest" catergory of magic have some of the strongest spells at later iterations.
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well, not many people put stock in the willpower catagory. so illusion is actually pretty powerfull all by it's lonesome.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Willpower or intelligence. Nothing like casting my homegrown Bittersweet spell on that Troll that fragged me over at poker in the Rubber Suit. He barfed all over that Mothra mobile hanging above the bar.
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Additionally, you might find it interesting to note that all the magic in Earthdawn that affected time and space was Illusion magic. There was this one spell that created a doorway between two places. One could liken that to a rift that transports objects through the metaplanes and appears through another rift. Of course, none of the Young Races in the 6th world have discovered any Time-Space magic yet.
Er... Is this from the second edition?
cause I'm sitting here with my first edition books, and...
The 2 spells I could find to create a doorway from place to place is Other Place, circle 8 Illusionism, max range of a mile, and Gateway, circle 10 nethermancy, max range 5000 miles.
Unless ofcourse you're thinking of Target Portal, to target a person with spells even though s-/he's far out of rage and LOS. Nethermancy 5.
The spell to open up into the astral space is the aptly named Spirit Portal, level 7 Nethermancy.
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Yeah, that's second edition. I lost my old ED book, but it was a 10th circle illusionist spell (I believe) where you created a doorway that you drew on one surface that is linked to another doorway you draw elsewhere. (Ala Beetlejuice)
Arguably, you could say that Nethermancy is the strongest, with the naturally dangerous and terrible Horror Call spell.
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As far as transportation was concerned, Magic, a Mystic Manual (http://watermark.drivethrurpg.com/Previews/RdBk-ED_MagicManualOfMysticSecrets-sample.pdf) indicated that it was equally hard for each of the 4 magician disciplines.
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Never read that one, but keep in mind that transportation magic is unheard of in the 6th world. It's one of those Holy Grail research projects, next to bringing dead people back to life and such.
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In the end, it's better to have someone with First Aid treat you on the spot and then look for magical healing.
Sorry, chummer, that doens't work. You have to use magic on a wound first. If you use tech on it, you can no longer heal it magically.
Gabriel
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of course, if you have someone with first aid... they can at least stop you from dieing, and give you the chance to heal normally.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well yeah, that's a given. I'm not waiting for a Bear shaman to get there if my arm is laying on the ground.
Gabriel
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you could pick up your arm with your other hand and go meet them half way...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
but that'd require you to put down your gun...
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Well, if my arm is laying on the ground, I think the time for needing to hold onto the gun is well past.
Gabriel
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or just begining... depends on if it's 'one of thoes days'
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Ah, you may have a point. But speaking as the only one in this place who has actaully SEEN his right arm laying on a slab beside him, trust me, it realy is going to be a bad day.
Gabriel
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I'll take your word for it.
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You know, I guess I should have kept that arm. I could have had it stuffed and made into a back-scratcher or something...
Gabriel
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How about a Halloween decoration?
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I always figured the 10 kilos of chrome and fiberoptics hangin from my right shoulder was the halloween costume. ;)
Gabriel
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That's the costume. You could wrap the fingers of the severed arm so it's holding the candy bowl...assuming there are any kids brave enough to show up at your place.
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Any kid THAT brave is not the kid I want to be meeting in my neighborhood.
Gabriel
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heh, good point
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the kids in the neighborhoods that I frequent aren't interested in the treats so much as the tricks anyhew.
-RuskiFace the pIrate
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You know, I have a floorplan of my last doss. If you wnat to see just how nasty those kids would have to be to get to my "front door", I'll see about converting it to an image file.
Gabriel
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Yeah, you're right about the healing thing.
Anyone ever use the custom lifestyle rules in the back of Sprawl Survival Guide?
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Uh, I think I had a character with that. Middle lifestyle, but the space was a bit small. Lived alone, and figured it'd be cheaper if I could find one of those 'weird space' units they sometimes have as fillers.
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Yeah, did it have any Edges or Flaws, though? Cursed amenities and Landlord from Hell?
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uh, easy escape (the character had Wall Running, so as long as the window opened...), Annoying Neighbors, Gnomes under the Floorboards...or was it Mail Leftovers?, and...one other edge, but I can't remember what.
This was in the live game with the Changeling Adept where the entire party ended up in the Metaplanes, so I really haven't had a chance to roleplay being home.
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That sounds like a weird campaign.
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Unfortunately, it looks like it may remain in Gaming limbo. too many scheduling conflicts *grumble* At least I can get my Shadowrun fix here.
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That's why we come here...
-RuskIFace the Pirate
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Wait, this is Shadowrun Limbo?
-kv
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You know, when my group created all of their dosses, we designed some interesting features into them. Then, a few years later, Sprawl Survival Guide came out and we realized that we all had edges in our lifestyles, but no flaws. So I just ignored them since we had already created and played these things for so long.
Gabriel
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that's what you get for planning ahead.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, if you get edges, just increase the price. There's nothing that says you HAVE to have flaws if you have edges and vice versa. You just get a better idea of what it costs to live in a sewer drain with Matrix access :P
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I hack my own matrix access.
*shrug* I even add it to any safehouses I go to... just on principle.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, but you still gotta find a junction box, and run some line down into your sewer pipe. You can't splice directly off of a fiber optic line.
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sure you can. you just need the proper tools.
I can do it in RL
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, without interrupting service?
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not intuupting it long enough for anyone to notice.
it's easy, you cut the cable and melt in a junction box.
they use the boxes to troubleshoot them when wires get cracked and soforth. they cost about $50
from the junction box, you pull your own line to wherever you want to go, and plug in a switching station (aka modem) from there, most script kiddies can get matrix access.
-RuskiFace the Priate
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Yeah, but there's no way to tap the access without compromising the line. In 2050+ I can guarantee that the telco knows this trick in and out. Not to mention that using a box like that would cause an anomaly, with it's MXP address and hardware serial number. The box would get shutdown because you'd need to deck the telco and insert the hardware's ID sig. This is from Matrix. You think the system wouldn't notice that it's no longer checking the same protocols on it's umpteenth jump? It's much easier to find a junction box and sap bandwidth with a dataline radio tap.
Hey, that's a good idea: Sustaining Focus- Invisibility 2 that's an enchanted dataline tap.
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Well, you have to realise that lines go down all the time. and anyplace that a line gets cracked, smashed, or generally disconected, the only way to put it back together is with one of thease junction boxes.
it's invisable to the data, it's a packet-filter. it just routes packets to the next location. you can even set them up to mymic from either side, the router that's suppose to be on the other side of it.
so you go from Router A talking to router B
to Router A talking to a fake router B that transmits it's data as a fake router A
it won't even show up unitll they have to replace router with new hardware (how often do they upgrade their grid?) and router B that's suppose to be receving information from the new and improved router X keeps getting information from the old router A, that's sitting in the trunk of some field-tech's car.
and, in the area's where most of the safehouses I know are located... service goes down all the time due to gang war... so a couple of seconds of flicker could be a power outage, and not someone hacking the lines. they don't have time to invenstagate all the flickers and blimps.
you could go with a wireless transcever, but you'll get some signal loss (from other wireless devices) and it's a bit slower than tapping straight into the backbone.
but really, if you were going to go that route, you could just get a hacked cellphone, and dial up that way.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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As I understand, a cellphone in SR can't handle a simsense connection.
All hardware in SR's system uses a serial number, if it doesn't have a serial number, the network won't interact with it. Just as it says in the Matrix sourcebook.
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that's what I was just saying.
the serial address of router A and B are mymiced by one machine.
it does have to have a serial number... it dosn't have to have it's own imprinted on there.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Right, therein lies the problem, if you do that, the network still won't recognize it. If you copy the serial from another box on the the network then the system kills both. There is no way to "spoof" the serial without decking the telco and screwing with the database.
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There's nothing that says you HAVE to have flaws if you have edges and vice versa.
Actually, there is. the eniter rule set says that you have to have a balance of 0 when you are finsihed assigning edges and flaws. Therefore, if you have a 3 Point edge, you cannot have (2) 2 Point flaws. You would have a remainder of -1, and that is against the rules. However, if you gain flaws (or edges, though this is RARE) later on down the line as plot-devices, punishments, etc, you do not have to balance them at that time. You just have to have the balance at character creation.
So if that's what you were saying, then, yes, I agree. ;)
Gabriel
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Eh, that may well be with character edges and flaws, but I'm speaking of Lifestyle edges and flaws. The idea was that they increas your rent by a percentage. So your basic Low Lifestyle gets better with Wonderful View, but it also gets more expensive.
I never obeyed the "Balance of Edges and Flaws" because I simply give 5 more starting Karma points per Flaw point or Take away 5 Karma per edge point. I don't allow you to spend more than 25 Karma this way before you have to take flaws to balance it out. In BeCKS you get 425 Karma points to spend at character creation, so edges and flaws don't necessarily make or break a character, but do provide enough interesting things to make a character unique.
Later, I allow my characters to purchase edges at the cost of 5 Good Karma and 1 Karma pool per edge point. That way, a character will have to spend a significant amount of time and consider the loss of Karma pool if they want Aptitude or Codeslinger, etc. You can buy off flaws in this manner too.
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Oh I know. Remember that Dependant 4 flaw I was talking about earlier? It took me 40 points of good Karma to buy that one off. That HURT! And keep in mind that I was running that game, so there was no one to blame but myself. :-\
Gabriel
PS - I didnt' know that you could get unbalanced edges & flaws for lifestyle stuff....
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Well, yeah, but just imagine the cost of a Luxury Lifestyle with all positive edges... yeesh.
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You would think a Luxury Lifestyle already HAS all of the edges. That's why it's luxury. But I see what you mean. There is rich, and there is RICH
Gabriel
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Nah, your "typical" luxury lifestyle is 100,000 per month, that's 30 points worth of: Area, Security, Comforts, Entertainment, Furnishings and Space. You can actually get 32, which then catapults the cost to 150,000 a month. That's without Edges, with EVERY Edge, you could get somewhere around... 450,000 or more a month...
I remember in some old books, Dragons had a lifestyle of "Extreme Luxury"
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is that with a great view of your pile of gold that you sleep on at night?
-Ruski
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I think that's a great view of any fraggin' thing you want to look at.
Gabriel
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rent must be killer on a divining pool of ultimate vision.
-Ruski
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For a dragon?? probably not too high. I mean, Dunkelzahn left 3 TRILLION dollard to one guy. With money like that,do you think ANYTHING is expensive to something like that???
Gabriel
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Yeah, but money isn't everything- what did Dankwalther do with it? Tried to bankrupt Novatech. Yeah, that was money well spent. Oh, where is he now? How about Novatech? Still a shark among the big ten?
-kv
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Dankwalther was an idiot.
By the way, when do you think they're gonna make a nanotech cyberdeck, one that is just a series of machines in a symbiotic relationship with your brain?
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Hopefuly never. Can you imagine that kind of tech??? Forget everything you thought about cybernetics, be ready for Nanonetics. :::shudders:::
Gabriel
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Reminds me of Deus Ex. I mean, who needs muscle replacements when you have nanites restructuring your muscles on the fly?
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pretty freakie stuff... but to stay ahead of SOTA I know some slots that would opt for the surgery.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Wouldn't the Nanite factory that you need to keep the nanites fresh be just as invasive and the implanted cyberdeck???
Gabriel
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possibly, but with a DNI and some headware memory space, you could have one hive upkeeping a whole slew of nanite systems.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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That's scary. What happens if the programing gets corrupted?
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Then Bye-Bye shadowrunner.
Gabriel
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Anybody crazy enough to risk it raise your hand.
*Not gonna do it*
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*shrug* anyone who's ever thought of getting a C3 deck would probibly be interested.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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*shrugs* Guess that's why I prefer running physads.
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Well, running on the edge is always a little frightening.
but if you look at the other 'similar' ware, there's no shortage of people signing up to get it done.
cybermancy,
Move by Wire systems,
and other extreamly invasive systems are still selling like hotcakes... and you can spot the slot who's got it done a mile away.
he's the one that's been running for awhile, and is still alive.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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True. I suppose the need to have that little edge can outweigh the risks...
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plus, a nanotech deck would look like any other nanite system to scanners... you couldn't be able to tell the diffrence between oxy-rush and a C4 deck.
that in and of it's self would be worth something.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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:) You could cause a lot of trouble with that...
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Yea... I don't know if it would have to 'come together' like the mightymorfinpower rangers though when it was 'active' or if it could just stay 'in solution' in your body.
could do lots of cool stuff with it though.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I would think that the nanites would have to congregate in the brain and along the brain stem. Other than that, you're right about it looking like anything else on the scanner. Of course, just HAVING nanites may well get you hoop scanned much more thoroughly than just having "normal" cyberware.
Gabriel
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that's assuming that they are doing bloodwork to scan you, and not just using a MAD system, or some sorta walk-by X-Ray thingie.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
there are diffrent ways to get past the bloodwork.
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Maybe the nanocytes would also leave a 'pocket' of uninfected blood at the site of blood draws.
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yea, you could program them to 'stay out of' a certan area.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Could you program to produce bloodcells with somebody else's DNA? Or is that too complicated?
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I don't think you could do either, actually, at least if you have free-floating nanites. It's not like they have little propellers on them. They go where the blood pumps, and if I'm a security guard, I'm going to draw blood in a different area each time. Frag the crook of the arm, I'll draw it from behin the knee, or the inside of the wrist. Kind of avoids complications.
Gabriel
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hmm... you could upload the DNA of someone else; but having it produced on a massive scale would be very difficult, and require a lot of headware memory.
you could probibly create, in a lab, a sample... but there would be easyer ways of doing that than with nanotech...
(like just good old geane thearapy, or get the sample to docwagon, and let them grow a clone for parts)
An interesting idea for nanotech was brain etchers though.
you could copy someone's brain pattern based on connection and path routes, and upload it into a clone.
so, you could dub your entire brain into a clone of someone else... but there would be two of you walking arround afterwards... unless you feel good about killing yourself.
(and if you do... the dub would have the same ideas)
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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So, how would you tell the clone from the original?
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According to Shadowrun canon, clones in the Sixth world don't "work" they are lifeless and stupid, lacking a "soul" or somesuch. That doesn't stop cloning from occuring however, since most grown organs are actually slabs of whole people with the needed parts removed and the rest sold as type-O or secondhand.
Most nanotech systems that would actually work as functionable cyberware would require nanotech that can reproduce without the needed hive functionality. However, since the heat generated by nanite production is inconceivable for a free-floating system there is a rub. Until that hurdle is overcome, you won't see self-maintaining FF nanites anytime soon.
The scariest thing is the simplistic nature of nanites on a basic scale, they are considered relatively simple in terms of actual composition, making them easy to affect with magic, and yet, their minute size makes them doubly difficult to actually target with magic. Imagine nanites that could replicate themselves inside the bloodstream via a Quickened Control Temperature (Self) spell.
How can they replicate, you ask, since magic cannot reproduce itself and a quickened spell will only affect the single nanite? Blood Magic. A sustained use of blood magic through a blood-fueled "queen" nanite colony that reproduces nanites at a phenomenal rate through magical means.
Imagine a nanite made of orichalcum that is host to an Ally Spirit as a homunculus. That's even scarier, as it has the ability to create many drone nanites through the use of spells and can direct the drone colony through the same means.
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well, as far as 'clones' go... they would be like having a twin.
only much younger.
unless it's growth accelerated, and gets a memory dump.
then it's just like you.
but be prepared to fight yourself for your favorite sofa.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, it would be a mental copy of you up until that point- the second the procedure begins, you would have different circumstances, different experiences, and even though you would react in similar ways, very quickly you would become two different people.
Especially if you were to implant your memories onto a child- that child would have to re-learn to use its limbs, go through school again, and re-adjust to life in a new body.
Even if it was your brain (through some sort of brain transplant), you would have to adjust to life inside this new body.
I wrote a short story once about a guy, a rich and famous, powerful guy, who woke up and found out he had been kidnapped- only to later in the story to see himself on TV, and find out that he's a clone kept in case something happens.
That sort of thing sounds like a distinct possibility in the world of Shadowrun. You seriously think Dankwalther didn't have any backup plans? He had the money- there could be a dozen clones of him still around, trying to ruin what's left of Novatech!
-kv
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Yup. it would be expencive, and probibly illegal in many diffrent ways, but who knows... it would probibly be easyer for corperations to just clone a couple of star employees minds, copy them over to 'perfect' bodies (elf perhaps? for a long life) and let them be model employees forever.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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maybe even program in some other mean things to make sure they dont feel the need to defect, kinda like in that one movie with the governator.. gets cloned and all. corperation puts viruses in the people they clone so they dont get ideas of jumping ship.
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Eh, the problem with this theory is that genetically, you can't clone someone over and over again because your DNA is encoded with a lifespan. Those sheep that they cloned only lived half as long as they should. This is reflected in the nature of Leonization therapy, insofar as you cannot exceed your natural genetic threshold. This would appear true for people too. However, if you made sure to save your DNA from when you were 21 years old, that's different, neh?
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I think you may be forgetting the natuer of nuerons here. You can't just clone a memory into another body. You have to physically alter the noerons in the brain itself. As you do that, there is less and less of the person's personality, and everything else left. Once you start to restructure one opart of the brain, the other structures alter as well. Plus you have to factor in the fact that no-one has a brain wired the same as anyone else, meaning that the structurs of the brain are similar, of cousre, but the actual nueral composition is not. The old sci-fi question of "Do I see red the same way as you do?" comes into play here, Especially since the answer to that question is "no."
To even have a remote chance of this working, you would need a clone, like you've already said. But you would need a clone who is the same age as you. After all, 50 years of corporate experience means very little to a person who is going through puberty. All those hormones and the like would play all kinds of hell with those precious memories and personality traits. Everyone has the fantasy of going back in time and reliving a few select days of their lives knowing what they know now. Just think how that would change you. So your really wiz and obscenely espensive plan to copy yourself and live forever would amount to, very quickly, creating a "you" who may well not do ANYTHING the same as you ever did, and hate the idea of what happened.
Gabriel
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Memory RNA is a tricky thing, simply copying it would be downright impossible. However, taking a PAB and "writing" the clone with Simsense might work. However, you'd need lots of storage space to copy the entire contents of someone's brain.
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well, how about this; yea, the 'you' that you copy may not be exactly like you at all, but if you had yourself 're-grown' at age 21 it would be like having a kid. only they probibly wouldn't let you down.
genetically similar, but starting off with a little more upfront cash than you did.
isn't that the goal of most families?
and what if you copyed your intelect into a body that was yours... but genetically modified to be an elf? that would help you skip out on the experation date for your human self?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Or an orc?
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they don't typically live as long as humans.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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No, I meant an orc "trading up", too.
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oh, yea. in that regard of course.
looks like everyone wants to be an elf.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I still don't think it would work, but only because you aren't taking into account the factors that make a metatype a metatype. It is more than just bone structure and cosmetic differences. You are talking all kinds of factors from electrolye levels to hormones to blood sugar regulation to things I don't even have the terms to express with my very limited medical knowledge. On the basic level, we are all human, but chimps are only 2% dissimilar to humans, and look how different they are. So if you could just "tweak" yourself to be a chimp, you would never be able to be a "chimp version" of yourself. Far too many things would change within that 2% threshold. :-\
Gabriel
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Hmm... you are probibly right. the biochemistry of how your body remembers 'throwing a ball' vs. how a new body would do it is probibly too dissimilar.
I bet you could do it for memories though. knoledge skills. do a dump of all the history you learned in highschool... that would be confusing to whatever orginism got on the receving end of it... but really; it could be helpfull...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Kinda like an amputee relearning to walk on an artificial leg? (Bad example, but the closest I can think of.)
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yea, zactly.
the 'wires' to the rest of the body probibly wouldn't work, so they'd have to be an infant, and learn to walk again...
but if you did a memory dump... all that algebra, history, social studies, and thoes fifteen langues you learned to understand over your 100 years of life... that should be able to be coppied over into a disimilar mind.
-Ruski
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Although the languages, you'd still need to relearn how to form the words. You'd understand what someone's saying to you, not necessarily be able to speak it back.
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understanding it is the bigger half of that battle I think.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Probably so. Of course, keeping it all in delta-grade headware memory would still be fairly essence intensive. We are talking the sum knowledge of an indevidual here. Even without the personality, that's a lot of MP's.
Gabriel
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yea, but it's not written in hardware wise... it's just etched into the meat brain of the new host body.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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So? Clone the brain and build a robotic body, yeah?
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So...when would they essentially be cylons?
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Yeah, I suppose so.
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Now see, I thought we just had a long, drawn out conversation about why the etching wouldn't work. Headware memeory wouldn't alter your nuerons. Etching would. The best you could do would be to have some dense headware memory and be done with it. And a "brain in a box" cyborg is so cybermantic that the essense would probably be something on the order of -12. And that's asuming it would EVER be able to survive the operations.
Gabriel
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You could just put a brain with a vehicle control rig. I mean, it's not cybermantic then, is it?
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No, but all of the life-support equipment is. Remember, if you use an artificial system to replace a natural body system, you have to use Essence. That's just how it goes. So a brain kept alive on total life support would incure horrendous amounts of Essence drain. In effect completely killing hte person who it belonged to.
Gabriel
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actually, that's a good point.
what if it's a body where the only cyberwear is a life-support system and a level 3 VCR? you drop the body into a troll sized robot, and let it 'drive' it arround.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
would have all the benefits of teh cyberzombie, minus the cybermancy.
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That might work. Of course life support equipment tends to stand up rather poorly to things like combat and magical damage. So sticking it all in a battlesuit might be a bit, um... hazardous.
Gabriel
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hmmm... true, but is it any more exposed than say, a normal human standing arround?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I'm sure someone would probably invent a more durable version of the life support equipment
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Maybe, but I still think there are better alternatives. Maybe a nanite assisted VCR connection into a micro-mech for better fine motor control??
Gabriel
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ooh, that sounds like fun. controling those little bugbots?
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well, if you put a dwarf into a troll sized robot, he could probibly just fit in there normal... only life support would be some air, and you could just pull that through the vents and filter it if you didn't mind braving the seattle polution...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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hehe, that's getting pretty close to mechs...On that thought, why doesn't Shadowrun have mechanized armor yet?
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I think they do... but it's pretty much limited to the desert combat campaigns.
not a lot of use for a mech walking arround the city... why pay $2 million for a pilotable aurthoform, when you can hire a troll for brute labor?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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probably why I didn't know about it. I don't know much about the desert campaigns
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Well, that and I think they want to preserve the look of a future that is possible and not too anime. As for theDesert Wars, the only place you get any decent information about that is Target: Wastelands in the Desert section, and even then it's a bit sparse. I wouldn't worry too much about it, though, I've never seen a modual that dealt with it.
Gabriel
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but if you wanted to... you could put a couple of mechs out there and pit them aghinst some poor shadowrunners.
-Ruski
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I believe I wrote something a while back about Anthroform vehicles. They're about the size of an SUV (Vehicle Body of 4) and their quality varies from very basic to highly developed. The most advanced models substitute servos and hydraulics for bundles of piezo-electric memory polymer strands that act like giant muscles.
The closest thing in canon to a mobile suit of armor is the JIM diving suit. The JIM suit can be adapted for VCR and so negates it's movement penalties. However, the rules don't state whether or not the exoskeleton can be used on land. I'd wager it can, however, since the JIM suit is designed to travel at depths well below human tolerances. A mobile suit of armor however, would require consistent charging and behind the scenes logistics in order to be useful.
My previous thread, about custom vehicles, stated that the HAFV (Heavy AnthroForm Vehicle) or Halves were developed for special dropship combat in mixed terrain environments. That is to say, something that can walk, dodge, crawl, duck and climb and still sport heavy vehicle armor in nearly any kind of terrain is very useful. The most extensive testing of Halves was done during a Desert Wars special broadcast, including the new campaigns inside the Gobi Desert.
Currently, a fibre-optic system is being developed for integration in some Halves so that mages can provide full-squad back up for assault. These systems follow the line of thought for Ares' developments in static security defenses. The penalties for using these systems are high, so only talented magicians need apply.
HAFVs use Walker skill for vehicle tests. Melee combat is handled with the Mechanical Arm skill listed in Rigger 3, save for melee weapons, which use their base skills with combat pool/control pool limited by the Mechanical Arm skill. Martial Arts may be used in conjunction with HAFVs, but the vehicle must be both Rigged and incorporate the Smart Materials design option. Other Halves are not articulate enough in scope to incorporate natural body motion in order to use martial arts. Adept powers such as Improved Skill do not apply directly, but they do apply in the case of Improved Mechanical Arms or Improved Walker skills.
Arm-mounted Weapons, with an articulated finger-trigger use their equivalent skill based on their design, combat pool is limited also by the Mechanical Arms skill in this case. For example, the Ares H-A Lord Hunter, is a massive pistol design that looks like the Predator's big mama, uses the pistols skill. Shoulder and body-mounted weapons use the Gunnery skill as before. Ranged weapons held in mechanical hands also gain the benefit of smart-links (if adapted) but not sensor-aided gunnery.
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That's a very well thought out system you've got there...
I may have to steal it sometime...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah right, you probably already have, Pirate-Boy. ;)
Gabriel
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yea... but only a copy.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Thanks, I modified it a little bit from my previous rules, to make them more fluid. Instead of limiting your raw skill for combat, your general effectiveness via combat pool is limited instead, making you a sitting duck, in relative terms.
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a sitting duck... with five metric tons of armor.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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You know Frank.. Those ADPS rounds are good.. But I think we might need something a tad bit stronger.. No, no i dont think they are bad rounds, its just they dont fit all situations, like you dont need them for hunting ducks, and sometimes you just need something with a bit more punch.... No! this isnt about that time you shot my dog! Im just saying, for something with that much armor, we might need some slightly stronger bullets!!!
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*pauses and reads over his post... then shrugs and continues on* Never got weird enough for me.
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Most melee weapons supplied for use by HAFVs uses normal melee damage rules. Blunt weapons do very little damage, but their capacity to knockdown targets and smash hardened surfaces makes them nasty. Edged HAFV weapons are often Dikoted to make them more effective in anti-vehicle combat. However, doing so nearly triples the price of the weapon. The mechanical arms on Halves have an effective strength of 16, with additional modifications, this can be increased further. Remember, that since melee weapons do not count as anti-vehicular damage, armor and body count double for resistance tests, so even this 16 Strength means little against a vehicle with 4 body and 4 armor. This is where a skilled pilot comes in, evading and disengaging an opponent to catch them off guard to deny them Pool dice or place themselves in advantageous position.
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it's all about death from above.
-RuskiFace the Pirate DFA!
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clickie (http://www.dominic-deegan.com//index.cgi?date=20020810)
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horrah for fishing with kitties!
-RuskIFace the Cat Fisher
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Ah yes, the BEST Battletech manuver in history...
Gabriel
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hehe, that cartoon was awesome.
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You think??? I wan't too wild about it. And the toys were just WRONG.
Gabriel
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I love loading the mini-mechs (Firemoth, Jenner, etc) with about 8 PPC's and setting them to the same chain fire group. . .
Sure, my mech would overheat, and power down for five minutes, and occasionally explode, but hey, when you can disintigrate a super heavy mech before they knew your were there, it all pans out.
This tactic is great for human vs. human games. Heh, the looks on their faces. . . heh. Just don't miss!
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And the other thing about using these in cities, is that it makes a great target.
You can't take it inside of buildings (too big, and it scares everyone.) If your a chromed up troll, and you walk into a bank, people hit the floor, and the Panic button is pressed before you take two steps. If you look like "damage", then you will be labelled a terrorist or worse. Same goes for wearing a tank. . .
You can't park it without making it a carjacker's dream.
If you are attacked, say from a distance, you can't counterattack without ripping the city some holes in some buildings, so collateral damage makes it impractical.