Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => SR3 (Shadowrun 3rd Edition) General Discussion => Topic started by: Gabriel on February 01, 2006, 09:18:13 AM
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Ok, I just came across this today while listening to Seeing Ear Theater, and this sounds like a damn cool conspiracy plot for a master shedim. Listen to the audio presentation, and let me know what you think.
Gabriel
http://www.scifi.com/set/playhouse/facade (http://www.scifi.com/set/playhouse/facade)
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I don't think a Shedim could posess you through remains snorted; they'd need a whole body. They talk about cremating bodies to prevent the Shedim from posessing them in canon.
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I know, but that's a pretty nasty scam if a master shedim could ever get the kinks worked out. I just thought it was a really intersting idea. :bob:
Gabriel
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Yeah, but by that logic, a shedim could do that with a portion of veal, if it wanted.
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would it want to take the form of a baby calf that never saw a string of daylight?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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You mean as apposed to a dead body at the bottom of Puget Sound???
Of course, that brings up an interesting idea. Say a Master Shedim possesses something small, like a shrimp of an oyster. Then a person eats the possessed form. Eating it wouldn't kill the Shedim, so as the food digests, perhaps the Shedim gains control over the host body. It could even force you to eat it with its compulsion power. Interesting idea...
Gabriel
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sounds like the restraunt at the end of the universe.
"Excuse me sir. how would you like me prepared?"
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Oysters maybe because most people kill the shrimp before it's consumed. Even then, I doubt it. I think the aura of fear and cold might make you shy away from the oysters regardless.
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But those aura's can be supressed. We are talking master shedim here. They can hide in plane sigth be "becoming" the person whose body they possessed. Not much of a trick if everyone is shivering and afraid of you when you are doing something like grocery shopping or filing a memo.
Gabriel
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I've met some creepey people in the grocery store.
specially the stuffer shack.
-RuskiFace the Pirat
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Yeah, finally got a copy of Threats 2. I don't think the Master Shedim can use their power without a body, so they aren't exactly as persuasive in their blobby astral form.
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True, they pretty much need a body to do anything physical at all. No mafinestation or materializaton without a body. It's a pretty big certainty taht Ibn Asi (I think that's his name) out in the middle east is a Master Shedim. See Year of the Comet for details on that one.
Gabriel
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Yeah, I'm fairly certain that Ibn Elsa is a Shedim. I mean, how could someone get their brains blown out and then "resurrect?"
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*shrug*
well, she seems to do good work.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, totally strange, really. The inherent alien nature of Shedim with a Master Shedim that purports "good works" A quandary indeed.
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Actually, that was one of the 4th Edition plotlines written into the main book that I had heard nothing about beforehand. Apparently Idn was the first person to be ressurected by a master shedim, and he did 'good works' for a while to cover his real plots.
By the time most people figured out what he was up to, it was already done.
-kv
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Ah, yeah, I kinda figured that's where it was going. Ultimate goal is still a mystery though?
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I don't remember. I do remember his plot was uncovered, and he was destroyed... but I don't remember the specifics.
-kv
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I believe HE was the Master Shedim, but I could be mistaken. And I think you may be talking about System Failure. That was the last rulebook I read, and what you're talking about is tikling my memory. But let's be honest here, something like that could only have happened in the Middle East. How many Zealot Socieities are around that region?? No wonder the morons fell for the resurection drek. I'm surprised it didn't last longer.
Gabriel
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*shrug* well, people gotta hope for something in the hereafter...
it's not that life is so short... it's that death is so damn long.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I can understand that, but stupid is just stupid. And they were DAMN STUPID! ;)
Gabriel
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if a man is selling something that is worth a dollar for a dime... it's probibly not worth a nickel.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I bet some people (Great Dragons) knew about it. But good luck getting anyone in the Islamic Unity Movement to believe contrary...
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I think a TON of people suspected it. At least a ton of runners did. I'll bet you Joe Average doesn't know drek about some of the stuff we see in our lives. They think they do. They may belive all manner of rumors and conjecture, but they don't know anything. OF course, most of the time we don't either,b ut unfortunately, we have a better chance of finding things out. Like big elementals really hurt when they engulf you. Or coming face to face with a 40' long aligator will make you REALLY hate watching the Nature Channel. Or getting shot by a Humanis thug will leave all kinds of interesting and disturbing scars.
Gabriel
(Kind of wondered away with that post...)
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the thing is... the people who really wondered about it... didn't have anything to do with it.
would you work for a master shedem?
I would, if the pay was good enough.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Then you and I would be at odds. I just can't abide something that lives and thrives off of the death of those around it. And I'm not talking about eating a burger and killing the cow or drek like that. I'm talking about firing up an entire nation into a bloodlust and then feeding off of the death it caused. Sorry, chummer, things like that I keep the big gun aroud for.
Gabriel
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but what if you didn't know. you are contracted through your usual fixer, to go pull some random paydata off of a corperate system. who's to say if they'll use that information to copy the compatition's product, for internal leverage, or to set off a race war in chichago?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well obviously this assumed I know who or what I'm working for. A generic Johnson is a generic Johnson, and I'll work for them if the terms and nuyen is right. But if I find out downt he line that the slag is a shedim, master or not, I'm going back. And I bringing FIREPOWER.
Gabriel
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Now, if only I could find this master shedim and get him to teach me how to Drain Karma...
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LOL, I'm sure he'll give you all the lessons you want. Oh, and he'll give you a nice little pet name too: Lunch. ;)
Gabriel
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If it's a spirit, or a horror construct (as I suspect they are) then they are indeed bound by something. Without their masters around they can be given a Name, and when given a name, they are susceptible to manipulation...
On another note, notice that Master Shedim do not possess artists or software designers, do you know why? These constructs have no creative spirit, at all.
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Again, you'r talking ED here, not SR. As far as I know, there have only been two Master Shedim listed in the canon rulebooks/sourcebooks in any event. You have Ibn Al Whats-his-name, and the one in Threats two, who is named, but whose name I have forgotten. As I remember it, the one in Threats 2 was a corporate accountant or something. So I don't think creativity has anything to do with it. Since they possess a body after it is already dead, personality of the deceases seems to be totally irrelevant. I don't think ED thinking would really apply to these things.
Gabriel
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Eh, the Horrors created constructs using Corrupt Unlife. These constructs can inhabit dead bodies. However, even the horrors and their constructs are psycho-sensitive, so prolonged exposure to people can aspect them. Since constructs require much less mana to maintain, it's plausible that they are here in a low mana time.
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Or perhaps it's a return of all the oldest sins, only in new and improved ways?
-Ruski
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Perhaps. If you want to be technical, we'd both be right, since in order for a Horror to create Unlife, it has to absorb Karma. In order to do that, they must bond through negative emotion, through violence, brutality, raw lust and any other variety of sins. So essentially, they use sin to create Constructs.
Anyone remember that Deus' inventions were always called "Constructs?" Makes you wonder...
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Not really. He constructed them. Deus was a program, not a spirit. That's why he was called and Artificial Intelligence, and not a Horror, or whatever theose ED things are called.
Gabriel
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I know I know, I was merely noting the dichotomy between the two.
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hehehehehehe you said dic...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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So, Retread, do you want to smite Ruski for that or should I??? ;)
Gabriel
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Why don't both of you? It's not like he couldn't take the hit.
Actually, I think it was interesting that Deus called his programs 'constructs' -I mean, with the advent of Augmented Reality, we're seeing more and more paralells between technomancers and spell-slingers.
Who's to say an AI isn't just another form of a free spirit, only rarer and locked into the Matrix?
-kv
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*cough*
horror
*cough*
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Eh, indeed, the nature of AI is very elusive. Deus could be considered a free spirit, given his nearly immortal nature, incredible power, and nearly divinative forethought. However, his origins while mundane, are the result of the environment it was created in, much like how a Nature spirit reflects its environment, however, when a spirit goes free, it often requires an X-factor, much like an AI, that imprints its "personality" Deus is probably a Shadow Player type of spirit, his actual "type" should remain unqualified.
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See, I totaly disagree with this. It's like saying my toaster is a bound elemental of the Toast Plane and if I were to unplug it and give it an X-Factor, it MIGHT become a free Toaster Spirit. Deus is a program, run on computers and existing as data. It does not exist on a plane other than this one, because it is a machine. AR just makes that halucination more real to the viewer. It niether creates, nor validates the existance of, a separate plane of existance.
Gabriel
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Yes, now consider the Metaplane of Spirits of Man, would that plane exist without people? So if that plane's existence is the responsibility of man, couldn't you say the same of the Matrix? I mean, you can DIE there, it doesn't get more real than that, bon homme.
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of course; we can 'turn off' Deus.
can we turn off the spirits of man?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yes, now consider the Metaplane of Spirits of Man, would that plane exist without people? So if that plane's existence is the responsibility of man, couldn't you say the same of the Matrix? I mean, you can DIE there, it doesn't get more real than that, bon homme.
But that's the thing. There is no THERE to die IN. The matrix is a consensual halucination experienced as a hyperactive graphic user interface. There is no space for the matirx to be in. There are programs running on computers, that's all. Anything experiences "in" cyberspace is nothing but a reflection of programming interfaces accessed by the brain of the user in order to create a more familiar and thus easy-to-use tool.
Gabriel
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yup. it's really all in your head.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
course... same thing could be said for astral space...
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Not really, but I think we've beaten this horse to death.
Gabriel
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perhaps if we squeeze just a little harder we can get some blood from this stone...
-RuskiFace the pirate
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Well, if you can give me directions to the nearest metaplane, I'd be happy to oblige.
Until then, we'd have to let it rest.
So, anyone wanna take a guess on what is the home Metaplane of the Shedim?
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If you say The Metaplane of Horrors, I think I'm just going to nuke this whole damn bar.
Gabriel
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I didn't need to say, I kinda figured you'd jump right on it :P
Unless you think they're from the metaplane of Cupcakes and Sprinkles...
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Well dammit! As a matter of fact I DID think they were from the Metaplane of Cupcakes and Sprinkles!!!!! ;)
Gabriel
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Hmmm... Hostus and twinkies...
that's a cupcake product right?
-RuskiFace the pirate
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Hostus was the company that put out Twinkies prior to the Jester/Apocalypse buy out/take-over.
Gabriel
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but they could still be arround on the demiplane of cupcakes and sprinkles...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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After Jester and Apocalypse were through with them?? Not fraggin' likely.
Gabriel
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Well, I'm gonna go get some food from the Hostess Tree then...