Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => SR3 (Shadowrun 3rd Edition) General Discussion => Topic started by: AJStarhiker on February 01, 2006, 10:55:18 AM
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Hey, just out of curiosity, if you use a radio detonator with explosives, can you trigger it with a headware radio?
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Yes. Oh Great Ghost, YES!!! A guy in my group made a sabatoure (sp?) who would plant something on the order of a dozen explosives, all linked to his headware radio. Then he would detonate them as free actions in his combat phase. Not a bad way to rig a demolitions expert. Although if you do that, get some serious encryption and boosters to go with it.
Gabriel
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What's the normal range of a radio?
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Range is determined by the Flux Rating of an object. I seldom have to deal with that, but there is a table in the rulebook which tells you. I believe a Flux Rating of 0 can transmit up to 1/2 a kilometer, though. The higher the rating, the longer the range, and the easier it is to pick up on someone transmitting.
Gabriel
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Thus, the encryption.
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Exactly. OF course, you could always set your detonators to pick up on a codeword and a frequency range. It would be harder to stop the signal that way, but still not really that difficult.
Gabriel
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I found it for vehicles, but where do I find the ratings for personal equipment and headwear?
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I thoguht they were in the regular rulebook and listed int eh descriptions. Unfortuantely I am at the office right now, so I can't look it up. :-[
Gabriel
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Maybe I was looking in the wrong spot
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Headware radios have a flux rating of 1.
you can boost it up to 4 with a signal booster, installed into a cyberarm.
be aware, that encrypted password receving radio detonators are very expencive.
it's much cheaper to just get the cheap ones, and set them to detonate when they receve a signal of 14.3 megacycles on frequency 1123.8
there is a chance of stray transmissions setting them off, but it's not a very big chance.
hot mikes do cause problems though, in either case.
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I thought headware radio had flux of 0 without a booster? Eh, whatever. You can also buy a signal booster that fits on your back, too.
You can also have an Implanted Remote Control Deck relay a detonation signal through a drone you have somewhere else for a cheaper method (essence wise, that is) as a headware radio uses an uncanny amount of essence. 'Course, if you aren't a rigger, then go with the radio.
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Is it 0? could be zero. I thought it was 1 for some reason...
perhaps there was a cellphone sized external booster that you could get for them that made it 1 or something that I'm only halfway remembering...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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That info should be in Man&Machine, and I can't be bothered to look it up at the moment.
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Ah. That's why I couldn't find it: don't have the book.
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Man and Machine was a good book actually. I enjoyed that one.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Hey AJ, if you want an e-copy of M&M, just let me know.
Gabriel
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Arrrgh! Avast Me maties! I do be seein' another kindred Pirate ship on the horizon!
-Ruskiface the Pirate
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The drug addiction rules were fun. I'd like to have a little utility that calculates difficulties for surgery and finding doctors. The roll they used in that was weird because there was a success threshold and a target number. If the player knew a skilled doctor they could save a lot of essence with good surgery and the Essence Gain and Body Index gain procedures. Of course, conversely, a really crappy doctor and you get essence loss and implant stress.
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Essence gain?
Far as I knew official cannon has it that there's no way to get back essence that's been lost.
I had my own rules concerning that, but I'd be currious as to what you used to figure it out...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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The gain is subtracted from the cost of the implant. I think it's 5% or something like that. The Essence Slot option allows you to remove an implant and then place something else in the slot. If you don't get that option you lose that essence FOREVER.
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I allowed 'slotting' but I don't normally let people 'get it back'
I had my own custom rules about extencive replacement surgery and burning copious amounts of karma to undo the 'dehumanising' that happens from chrome.
essentially, for 10X the cost of equipment, I'd let them have it removed and replaced with cultured bioware, from there, some intensive psychotherapy (10X the essence loss in karma) would let them get it back.
but that's my own homegrown rule.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Mages with Wired Reflexes are scary... That is all.
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*shrug* in my rules, if they got anything other than the most basic set of wires, they wouldn't have enough magic rating left to be much of a mage...
-RuskiFace the pirate
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Ahem, let's see here: Alpha Wires II, that's 2.6 essence loss. Mage takes Geasa: Talisman, Gestures, and Somatic. That guarantees that providing that the Mage uses those three things he operates at optimum level, as well as casting at least 2 spells per combat turn. Without those, the mage can still dump all his/her dice into a low force power-bolt and still wallop most people without a care.
Alternately, you could go with reaction enhancers to pump up their reaction on the cheap (essence wise) or they could go bioware and get a synaptic accelerator rating 2, and still not take ANY magic loss (according to 3rd edition errata, a magician doesn't face magic loss from bioware until their bio index is 2) Then again, if synaptic accelerators are cultured, you can't get them at chargen anyway.
I wonder if it's possible for a mage to detonate explosives with a radio signal spell?
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Sinaptic accelerators have to be cultured. there's no other way to get them to work.
but yea... with a gease, or a handfull of fetishes; you can still pull it off and be one scary mother-fragger.
and that's why 'geek the mage' is the name of the game.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Which is why I have my mage characters dress up like mercenaries. Those robes and stylish arcane symbols have little to do but modify your style and they provide a very colorful indication of "GEEK THIS MAGE"
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LOL
I typically start shooting the guy that's glowing with lightning fire, and chanting. I don't care if he's wearing a pointed had with stars and strips, or a two peace bikini...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I like mages. They provide a nice target for the people shooting so they don't me sneaking in.
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I like em' because, they are up there in the priority target section.
1) Geek the Mage.
2) Geek the Sam
3) Geek the Merc
4) Geek the Trog
...
far below that is where I reside.
432) If you are bored, and still have ammo left, and are feeling mean, you can shoot the decker. You jerk. he dosn't even have a gun!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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...so where does the physad fit?
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somewhere between the mage, and the Sam.
still way above the decker.
and that's good. because I hate being shot. It really sucks.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Of course, that's assuming they even see the physad...
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Cybernetic Phyical Mage Samurai:
Go full magician but as a Path of the Magician adept and pick 3 points of adept powers (improved athletics II, improved implant weaponry I, improved (insert ranged weapon) II, and 3 points of Magical power. Now get 3 points worth of cyberware, spend some money on a rating 1 Cyberspur Weapon Focus, use that as an implant. Take some geasa and voila, a combat adept with the ability to learn and cast at least force 1 spells safely. Spells like armor, redirect, and deflect. As they initiate they can throw off their geas and then be nasty kinds of powerful, and proceed up to force 3 armor spells. Not to mention health spells like increase attribute and heal.
I remember mages that would cast improved attribute spells and lock them with spell locks er I mean, sustaining foci. What's worse than a nova-hot decker? A nova hot decker with a bear shaman bolstering his intellect?
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will have to send you striker retred'
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Striker?
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The last game I played, I got my Physad doosted with Increase Reflex 1 Spell, and since he already had enhanced Reflexes, that was one BAD trog! He closed fast enough that the bad guy only got 2 shots, and they didn't amount to much, and then he beat them to death. That was the first time I ever played a physad, and I liked it. ;D
Gabriel
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yhea striker I sent you a email with him
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well, if you want to min-max everything, there are always a dozen ways to do it.
I never enjoyed playing thoes PC's though.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I say, but I'd rather see a unique cybermage for a change rather than your average boring hermetic-type.
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I can see that. Of course, I really hate mages. Give me a good Shaman any day, and then we'll have some fun.
Gabriel
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I'll stick with my mundane wrench-turning friends.
they are less likely to have their meat body become ground zero for a failed lightning storm spell durring an astral quest.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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sounds painful. And why I stick to phsyads.
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Yea, having a mage in a group is sometimes as big a liability as running into one in another group.
\-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Although it's less painful if he mostly sticks to healing, levetation, invisibility, and only breaks out the big spells if it's an emergency.
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but that's like having a Street-Sam that sticks to the streetline special.
everyone wants to break out the big guns.
-RuskiFace the Priate
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Yeah, but when we broke into the club, our mage only cast invisibility, clairvoyance, levetation and healing spells. When the drek hit the fan and LoneStar showed up, there were no tell-tail physical signs a mage had ever been involved. Thus, they didn't check all that close for unauthorized astral signatures until it was too late and the signature faded.
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Probibly a good way to go.
I always liked the quiet stealthy extractions the best.
-RuskiFace the Priate
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Yeah, well, that was the one where I was on the floor getting (almost) killed by the weapons spec with the 1 in computers. Everyone bolted as best they could, and me and the weapons spec ended up in that pocket out of time talking to a caffenated water spirit.
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Yea. it's nice if there's a couple of people in the party that can use computers properly.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Speaking of people exploding (check a few posts back), how feasable do you think it would be to have about a pound of C-4 surgicly implanted into a person's chest davity? I know it can be easily done, but just how hard would it be to detect??? Any ideas???
Gabriel
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Well, a chest x-ray would show irregularities--especially if there's a solid detonator (I volunteered at the rad department in a hospital a few months ago). Dunno about metal/cybernetic sensors. Probably depends on the detonator.
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chemical compounds of that nature 'sweat' as well. so a chem-sniffer would be able to pick it up through the skin if it was in there for any length of time... like... long enough for the person to heal up from the incision.
probibly be easyer to coat the backside of their ribcage than to have it in one lump sum though... would have the same problems though... although that would make it a bit harder to pick up on an X-Ray.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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um i would think the surgery scars would be a dead give away
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could've been open heart surgery or something.
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well, if you just coated the back side of the ribcage, you could use one of thoes mobil sprayers. a small tube... the actual incisin could be like 1" ... hide it allong the bottom of one of the ribcages... or make it look like an apendix was removed or something.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, the idea is to have a PC with this kind of thing hooked to a biomonitor. If the monitor flatlines, the PC goes BOOM, hopefully taking out any bad guys in the process. The problem is getting it past normal detection devices like MAD scanners and such. As for the "sweating" thing, I would think having the explosives contained inside a casing would be the way to go with that.
Gabriel
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well, you could probibly do it. but I don't know if that's a very good life insurance policy.
on shock-glove to the ribs... and you may be more than unconcious...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Now THAT'S a good point I had never thought of. I'll have to think of something else...
Gabriel
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Well, it's kinda a double problem...
if you tell people, "You shouldn't kill me, I'll explode and kill you too!" they'll just kill you from far away.
if you don't tell them, you are probibly going to be more likely to just blow up your friends who are trying to get your flatlining self to an Evac point so docwagon can patch you back together.
you could do it to someone else as a threat, a cranial nuke or kink-bomb of some sort. (that's classic enough to happen ocasionally) but it's so expencive, that it's often not worth the effort.
A better 'death knell' would be to have a wireless transmitter, broadcasting the last ten minutes of video to the matrix in a public forum, letting everyone know who killed you.
then, thoes who know you; know where to go to get revenge.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Now THAT is a damn good idea. I LIKE IT!!!
Gabriel
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hmm...linking an optical camera to a headware transmitter...
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Easily done. In fact, the only thing you would have to do is have some kind of subprocessor that keeps dumping all unused data past the 10 minute mark. One of the things I thought should have been brought over from SR2 to SR3 was the heardware subprocessors.
Gabriel
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Cyberware scanners would pick the explosives up. These scanners are high-tech ultra-sound devices that analyze shapes and patterns. If you shaped the explosive to look like a piece of mundane cyberware: datajack, cybereyes, simlink, etc.
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or the bone structure of the ribcage?
*shrug* could be done.
just not a whole lotta reason to do it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Takes suicide bombing to a whole new level
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yea, but you could get a cranial nuke too...
either way, the process is more expencive than the explosive, or the payment you have to give some zelot to blow himself up.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I still like the 10 minutes before death thing.
Gabriel
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well, feel free to use it all you want.
you'll need a cyber-eye or two, and a hard-wired headware radio.
but other than a couple of MP for the deticated stream file there's not much to it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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What about the memory issue? I get some of that, but no processor. Or would that be a function of the radio???
Gabriel
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It'd have to be able to send video, not just audio. I can't remember if they have those, though
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I think that can be braodcast over radio, but I'm not sure. Maybe a transciever??
Gabriel
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What kind of signal is TV broadcast on?
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I don't have a clue. But it really only has to be data. You could transmit an MPEG file like that I would guess. And you can't tell me all media won't just be computer files in 2060.
Gabriel
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There's probably some hardcore fans who still have CD's, tapes, etc. Even IRL, you still see people wanting the old vinyl records.
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That's a good point. But the broadcast standards would probably all be digital, or the next thing big thing yet to be invented.
Gabriel, who still has 5 boxes of vinyls
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a radio is just a radio. you can push any sort of data through it. I could hold an acoustic coupler over a public band Ham Radio Channel, and broadcast webpage content to anyone with a ham radio, and another acoustic coupler.
So, headware memory actually comes with it's own sub-processor, they don't say much about it, but it's actually there.
you program your cyber eye, with the cyber camera, to constantly dump video into a select space in headware memory, when the memory gets full, it starts overwriting it's self automaticly. that's all controlled by the cyber-camera. you can move to a secondary memory address if you just saw something you want to remember later.
okay, then you get a bio-monitor. when the bio-monitor goes flatline, it sends a signal to your radio. (gotta love DNI) your radio, picks up the signal, and runs a simple macro,
find the EOF command in memory location X
broadcast data through cellphone to: address(whatever)
you have address whatever set up as a data drop point. (any decker can buy a phone number, and a computer in a secure location, and set it to receve, record, and then broadcast information to a variety of places, public or private.
So; here's a run-down of what you need:
Headware radio, with DNI
Biomonitor, with DNI
Cyber Eye
Cyber-eye-camera
Headware memory
and, on the outside of your body:
Decker Contact (probibly level 2 at least)
a $1,000 personal computer.
a $100 / month personal phone
a safehouse (another $1,000 / month)
pay the decker (or me) $1K to set it all up. run a couple of tests.
pick a site, give the address to your friends, and a couple of news companies. tell them to just add it to their favorites, because it may ocasionally play interesting things.
then, ocasionally send interesting things there. upload 5 minutes of that joygirl you picked up, or 5 minutes of a gunfight, or 5 minutes of a meet with a questional J
the 5 minutes of a J renigging on your contract to double cross you. that'll do wonders for his rep.
whatever. ocasionally keep it interesting so people go there.
then, when you bite the big one, they'll see it when it goes down, and what lead up to it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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It may be a digital signal, but what would the carrier signal be?
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well, it's just a modem.
every comlink has a modem carrier signal built into it. (so you can download ring-tones and whatnot)
you'd just be uploading information on the same protocal.
like taking pictures of the ocean on your cellphone, and setting it as your wallpaper at home...
only instead of pictures of the ocean, it's pictures of the slot that just shot you... and instead of your wallpaper at home, it's an E-journal that several important people ocasionally check.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I really like this idea. I am printing this out to give to one of my players who may like to do it, and keeping a copy for someone to do it to them.
Gabriel
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nice
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it's all about the information.
in this day and age... it's much more explosive than any of the simtex derivatives.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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You know, maybe I should figure out a none-cybered version for my character...
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well, there's always a 'long way' to do things by hand, without cyber or magic.
actually, thoes are the people that I like.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, she is vindictive. Although she's also smart about it. If she doesn't think she can win at that moment, she'll wait and figure out a way to get even that won't get her killed.
If she does get killed, she'd want a way to still get revenge.
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well, you could carry arround a video camera on your shoulder and have it hard wired to a cellphone...
or, some glasses. they make 'spy cameras' that work in glasses.
could patch it into your docwagon wrist bracelet with a B/R electronics 4 test... it would take a bit of wireing, but I bet I could do it with enough money... let's see now...
Okay, Mr. Spy eye camera glasses.
a pocket secertary, with wireless web access, and 100 MP of memory...
a docwagon gold contract...
and, a little bit of wire to tie them all together.
you'd have to keep that stuff on at all times. i'd suggest going with an actual wire between devices, as the 'wireless interface' that you could use, would be a pretty target for hackers.
from there, you'd need the same back-end. a decker contact or me, to pull it together, a computer worth about a grand, and a phone / safe house to keep the data-dump in.
or, to cut-down hardware on your person, you could opt out of the PDA and instead use a better cellphone plan... because if you wanted to cut out the PDA, you could have all the tasks taken care of by your PC at the safehouse, but you'd need a constant scream of information to and from.
and, if you wanted it to work everywhere, you'd need a sat-phone on your end....
(don't get good cellphone service for upload in the congo)
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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How much would that set me back?
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You get a micro camcorder and hook it into a flexible fiberoptic lense mounted in your hair running along the axis of the glasses, or even runing on the inside of the frames and down to the P-Sec. A bit more secure than the wireless.
Gabriel
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Yea. there's all sorts of ways to bug yourself.
thoes kits can run from 40Y to 8,000Y, dedpending on how delux and sneekey you want to be.
the only interesting part is the P-Sec/Cellphone combo
and again, you can get as delux or bargan basement as you want with that.
range in cost from probibly the low $1K to upwards of $10K
plus a monthly fee, or a decent decker contact to hack you a phreaked phone. each way has it's pros and cons.
hacked = could be brought down at an inopertune moment
payed = costs money, and might be able to be traced back to you (not like that would matter if you're dead though)
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eh. Might wait on it. At least until I've made an enemy or two.
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*shrug*
so, what's the whole package cost?
assuming you don't have the decker contact, and you'll have to pay the $5K introduction fee, I think this would be a good breakdown:
cybered version: $120K
external version: $25K
you can of course spend more, and get delux versions of the same, or less, with used parts, but I think that's about the middle range.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Probably not worth it without an enemy I want reeallly want fragged.
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well, this is more of a 'backup plan'
so that people will know who got you, when you die.
trying to frag a particular enemey with this... isn't a good idea.
because, you'd have to be dead for it to work.
and that's something we generally try to avoid.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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true. But I also haven't made any buddies (yet) who'd go out of their way to get revenge.
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well, start making buddies quick, because the enemies come of their own accord in this biz.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I said yet!
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*squints*
hhmm......
I don't like your attitude! I think I'm going to sign up for the 'enemys' list!
oh crap... the line is so long.
well, hell. Okay. I'll be your friend. but you have to go buy me some stuff.
like a car.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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uh...what kind?
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Well, if he can drive a car like he can ride a bike, you better get him one with training wheels. ;)
Gabriel
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Oh... nothing that special..
just a 6.6 trans-am... something from the early 80's.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Gonna go live in a trailer when you get that car??? ;)
Gabriel
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Yup!
and wear nothing but a wifebeater and tightey-whities.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Twitch.gif)
Gabriel
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
that's a cool smiley.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Hehehehe, and SO appropriate, don't you think????
Gabriel
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Yes. it was exactly the responce I was going for.
we make a good team!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, I've had that little guy for a while now, and just ahven't had any post worth using it on. Thanks for the oppertunity.
Gabriel
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well, it looks like you saved it for just the right moment!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, I've got one last good one and I'm saving it for something really wiz, like Zone giving me another kiss. Of course, last time I had to wait for a Category 5 Hurricane to hit my city before she gave me THAT. So don't look for it very soon. ;)
Gabriel
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Hmm... well, you could go put some of thoes wind-flamingo things in your yard... perhaps that'll help the wind build up and get you another one?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Chummer, it just isn't worth it. :-\ No offense, Zone, but 2 Cat 5's in 2 weeks was enough for me for a lifetime.
Gabriel
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okay, fair nuff'
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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That idea about the rig is really nice. The only real expensive part about that is the rating of your encryption program. Essentially, the same set up could be set up with a Simsense rig (albeit, more expensive) and a radio.
Ideally, you'd have to be in an area where your signal could get range or be retransmitted or sent through the 'trix. Cellphones or radio receivers attached to jackpoints could do this. Keep in mind, that even if the data is encrypted, it can still be recorded and broken so a GM who allows this set up should keep this in mind.
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also, if you broadcast a lot, a decent decker could use your gear to triangulate on you.
-RuskiFace the pirate
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Yes indeed, of course, you'd have to die a lot to do that.
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well, not DIE a lot. but you need to post 'interesting' things to your site so that the people who need to know, will actually go there in time to make a diffrence.
and, if you make enough posts so that people go there every month or so, and someone figures out that it's you, and wants to track you down...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
it would be tough, but it could be done.
I could do it.
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Well let's be honest, if you are alive to post "interesting" things, then you wouldn't have to transmit anything, you just upload int like normal over a matirx connection. No worry about someone finding you aother than the normal ones.
Gabriel
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well, with any system like this; there's a problem of eventual breakdown.
the hacked cellphone gets cancled, your upload point gets compramised, the OS on your desktop computer gets worms... lots of little things can cause big problems. the only way to keep it running is to keep testing it.
so, uploading interesting tidbits is a double reason;
reason 1) to make sure people know where to look to find this data.
reason 2) to make sure that the system can run fully automated, even if you are dead. because while you could try back again if you got a buisy signal... what would your slowly cooling corpse do?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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So...how do you think MacGyver would react to 6th World-type bombs?
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With ingenuity and flair?
Just needs a new haircut.
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What? The mullet is him. Cut it off, you get Jack O'Neill.
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LOL, maybe he can bring the style back. But I would think McGuyver actually has Build & Repair EVERYTHING 16.
Gabriel
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With specializations in jury-rigging and homemade explosives?
You know, that could make for an interesting character. 6th World MacGyver. You'd have to give him the Pacifist flaw, probably an aptitude for explosives, Negotions-Fast Talk...
grr, now I want to try and build the character.
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could do it. would save a lot of skill-points by not getting any weapon skills.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, and being human.
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could get him some of that intelegence bioware...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Maybe some boosted reflexes, considering how often he has to dive out of the way of stuff...
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hmm... escape artist of 6?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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And Stealth. He'd need it sneak into all those places.
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Yea... he's done the whole 'shadowrun' thing a couple of times.
bypassing amazing security with his BRAIN!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Just need to train him up on 6th World reality, huh?
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colledge educated edge would go a long way towards helping that.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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would it be College education or Tech school Education? I seem to recall Tech school gave more bonuses to active skills.
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He'd probibly have them bouth.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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heh, good point. So, besides pacifist, what other flaws do you think he'd have? Mild phobia of flying with Jack Dalton?
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hmmm... he seemed to crash his jeep a lot...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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And just about every other kind of motorized vehicle. (I remember he did pretty well with sled dogs in one ep) Can you have Gremlin for a specific type of item, or is it only a general technology thing?
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only works on 'all' electrical stuff. *shrug*
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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If it was just for flavor's sake, you could work something out with the GM, reduce the flaw by one point, and have it apply to only vehicles.
I don't know that I would allow it, other than for flavor's sake.
-kv
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it's only a one point flaw.
would be easyer to take 'incompatence drive'
and leave it at that.
-RuskIFace the Pirate
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You need to upgrade to Total Pacifist. Doesn't Mc Guyver never kill, or even use a weapon, EVER?? I have to admit that I loathed that show with a deep, black passion, so I don't know just how far his pacifism went.
Gabriel
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Depends. It's hard to tell from the rules, but can a Total Pacifist fight back with nonlethal force? If so, then yeah, I'd say he'd be a Total Pacifist, otherwise I'd leave it at the lower version.
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Total pacifists are very capable of defending themselves, but will NOT, under any cercumstances, kill somoene. A pacifist, on the other hand, can be pushed to kill someone, but only if there is no other option (or he feels there is no other option). And if a pacifist decides that he has to kill you, he will make it as quick and painless as possible.
Gabriel
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Ok, then I'd probably agree he'd be a Total Pacifist. He has no problem using guns, he just uses them as wrenches, levers, props, signaling, spooking...
-
There you go then: Total Pacifist, Incompetent: Cars, Colledge Education, Vocational Education, Aptitude: B/R, and a drek-laod of regular B/R skills. If you went the route of an adept, you could use points to boost the B/R skills even further.
Gabriel
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MacGyver had Brawling at least.
-
Yeah, but no Killing Hands. He only ever knocked people out.
You think he had a high pain tolerence, too?
And anyone know how many languages he spoke?
-
a couple.
I don't think of him as a total linguist, but I think he did like spanish and portiguese or something.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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At least, he spoke it well enough to understand and to bluff people not familiar with the language.
-
lol he could read a script with gibberish on it.
-RuskiFace the pirate
-
I thought that was Daniel Jackson. ;)
-
yea, but he quit.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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MacGyver needs to have the Daredevil Edge too, and some kind of Dependant Flaws because he's always involved in some after-school program or something.
-
I wouldn't exactly say he has dependents, maybe a Code of Honor? It's not listed in the Shadowrun Companion, but it probably wouldn't be all that difficult to come up with a suitable description and cost.
-
dosn't that fall under the 'total pasifist' bit though?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
could give him the 'day job' flaw...
-
Yeah, I'd agree to Day Job (Especially if you can come up with an organization corresponding with the Phoenix Foundation), but Code of Honor is different from Total Pacifist. Code of Honor means there are certain standards you follow, not necessarily not killing anyone.
Or maybe Sense of Duty would be a better one. They're pretty close, but I don't remember offhand what the exact differences are.
-
I don't think shadowrun has thoes flaws. I've seen them in other game systems, but not this one.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Those are both in GURPS. Not that they can't be converted, but...
-
*shrug* could make up 'custom' flaw points, as approved by your GM.
I'd let them go through.
anyone who takes the effort to think up a custom flaw for their PC is cool with me.
it's the edges you have to watch carefully.
-Ruski
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Yeah, I saw that part in the book. It doesn't say anything specifically, though, just that edges and flaws shouldn't be more than plus or minus 6
-
well, if you figure that the average 'stat' in the game is suppose to be '3' for a normal human, pushing the maximum penalty to anything over 6 would have to be a near-totally fatal flaw, or 'the strength of 10 men' edge.
the way I look at it, a level '3' flaw, should be restrictive enough to lower effectivly three of your stats by '1' or one of your stats by '3'
a level 6 flaw should be able to take the thing you are best at (level six skill) and reduce it to nothing.
whereas a level 6 edge would effectivly double your range on a level 6 skill.
a code of ethics... *shrug* depending on the code I'd probibly say that's a one or two point flaw.
sense of duty would probibly be worth about three points. it's certanly more risky than 'daredevil' (having to rescue every little old lady would be a pain in shadowrun)
but then again, I know guys that play that way for free.
*shrug*
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
well, the book only has one +6 edge, and it's a variable one, but there's several -6 flaws.
-
they probibly didn't want people to get carried away with the edges.
there's actually a couple more +6 ones in the cannon companion.
one of the more notable ones 'hooked up', lets you get cyberware / equipment with grater than normally allowed ratings (delta ware, and panther assault cannons here we come!)
they tend to be very game unballancing though.
-Ruski
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Yeah, well, most of the really high edges don't fit my style of play very well. Lightning Reflexes is pretty good, but it only works in surprise situations. I'd rather save the build points for something a little more versatile.
-
Was it Gabe who mentioned that any flaw had to come up the number of times per game per level? So a level one flaw had to be mentioned once (I had to ditch my day job to meet with the Johnson) whereas a police record would come up over and over. (Your parole officer is on the phone again!)
I kinda liked that idea. (I also stole his understanding of the Dependant Flaw)
-kv
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Ahem! Ambidexterity 8. The most expensive yet, subtly impressive skill. It adds 50% to your melee weapon skills (if you have two weapons) and lets you get an extra 2 pistol shots or bursts off every round. I made an ambidextrous flat-vid movie actor adept who had ambidexterity IV, hunted II, daredevil, and one custom one where his semi-famous face would be recognized (flaw, as it coincided with Hunted) He was one bad mofo with a specialization in Clubs (Nunchaku) 6 so he'd roll 9 dice plus 9 combat pool (combat sense) and had a pair of customized silver-plated Salvalette Guardians. He'd drop two bursts with no recoil until his second pair. Had a host of other Daredevil abilities like Select Hearing 5 (Improved Sense adept power) Great Leap and that one that lets you fall softly so he could do all sorts of diving shots.
-
Wow. Sounds like that should all be packaged into the "John Woo Flaw" (-10) - must shoot two different guns at the same time while jumping through the air during every combat. Can also be set off by pigeons flying through fire, and jumping through glass.
;D
-kv
-
Yea, I like that you get the flaw's rating in occurances pr. run.
lot of work for the GM though.
-RuskiFace the PIrate
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And it would be annoying for all the other runners.
GM: "You're approaching the guard's station"
First Runner: "I pull out the forged papers we..."
John Woo: "I jump through the closest glass while shooting two different guns! I have my 9mm and a .38 revolver!"
First Runner: "Dear God! Not again!"
-kv
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and they'd constantly go through their karma just trying to survive the player-killing.
"I toss a white phosperous gernade in the booth with 'woo' and the guard."
-Ruski
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The Idea in this thread about broadcasting your death to your buddies makes me think of a great idea.
Sure that's an excellent final attack for most shadowrunners. Go out with a bang, if you will.
But what about the poor slot who hasn't got any friends. If someone offs him, where's his revenge, I ask you?
DeathWagon! That's where. By attaching this biomonitor and paying our (hefty, and exuberant) monthly fees, we garuantee that we'll go done fighting, if you do. No friends to avenge you? Hire us! DeathWagon! For when you're too dead to care!
This is the best business for mercs! I could see a corp forming specifically offering this service. Work is plentiful, no negotiations necessary, and since everything you do is on the grey side of the law anyway, you may as well. Even if the slot doesn't die, he still paid his fees. Nice steady income. Kind of like a corp extension to the Life Insurance Policy. . .
I'm going to make a character to found this business. (Sadly, he will probably be the first to need it :( )
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hmm... death wagon. and if you get their platinum package, they drop a small nuke wherever you happen to fall.
-Ruski
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Good way for the GM to Stomp a runaway party. Have a suicidal NPC get one of those contracts, and whenever the party frightens or threatens them, they bite the bullet.
Two minutes later, a self-solving problem. . .
-
well, in the intrest of game play; nuking your PC's and killing them all probibly is a bad way to go...
although you oculd use the threat of it to keep them on track.
-Ruski
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especially with an NPC that they don't think they need, but you happen to know they do.
As happened once in one of my games.
GM: "You meet Mr. Black."
PC: "I shoot him in the face. What's next."
GM: *looking over his notes with negotiations tests mapped out and the information he needed to give you defined* "Uhhh... there's a datapad on the table."
PC: "Datapads are boring! What else is there?"
GM: *has a good idea* "Ooh, his secretary comes into the room!"
PC: "I shoot her too!"
GM: *sigh*
-kv
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okay, in that case, it'd be a good idea for a 'wipeout' squad to come start fighting, just so the PC's will have something to do. they won't get paid... but perhaps it'll be entertaining.
*shrug*
-RuskiFace the Pirate
then, in the next room, a compleatly diffrent... Mr. Brown, will have some information for them.
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Hey, the secretary was my last attempt to keep that particular part of the Run on-track. Of course, I don't know that we ever got a chance to finish up the end of that run.
It was not going well.
So, would Deathwagon drop nukes? Or just high-yield explosives? Sub-nuclear tactical weapons?
-kv
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depends on how much you pay them.
for their $1 million / year policy, you get a nuke payable upon demise.
for $100,000 / year, you get a sub-nuke
for $50,000 / year, you get a death watch guard, a group of four runners who'll go in and wipe everyone out.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I'd think it'd depend on the location. in a wasteland somewhere: Nuke; in a sprawl, high yield? (Somehow I doubt anyone really wants a repeat of the Bug City disaster and resulting containment zone)
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if you are paying a million dollars a year to take out whomever with you when you bite the big one... would you really care about dropping a nuke in the middle of the city? not like you are going to be living here...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Good point. Although the DeathWagon employees might object if they happen to live in the neighborhood.
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Hmmm... well, perhaps it's launched from a missle silo in russia.
no one there would care if they nuke seattle.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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LoL! Or from India or Pakistan?
-
china? there are lots of people who would nuke someone else for a daily paycheck.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Especially for a $1,000,000 a year paycheck.
Hell, I would almost nuke Seattle for that. And I have two cousins living there!
-kv
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Hmm... yea.
of course, the company would probibly keep most of that.
but for $100,000 / year, you'd sit in a box, and then, perhaps someday, nuke some people you don't know, and probibly don't like.
-Ruski
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hmmm... a nuke might not be the best cost ratio... considering that something like 60% of shadowrunners live in Seattle as some point during thier lives. And megacorps probably aren't going to let thier employees have this sort of insurance.
That means that for every runner you nuke, you have a chance of eliminating other subscribers.
Which would be a bad thing, especially if they're paying you A cool 1 million a year.
-kv
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well, if you knock them out too, you can get a bulk rate on the nukes.
-Ruski
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Well, if you nuke the city, sure you fufill one contract, but if you kill your own subscribers, won't you have to nuke yourself, to keep your end of the deal?
Perhaps a better choice would be suborbital laser arrays, using GPS or local source Identification such as "painting lasers". Maybe it would be harder to find, and kill the guy, but if they know you are there, I gaurantee that they won't leave their building until they starve.
That should be a common sight in 2060-2070. A man walks out of his apartment, a pinpoint pulse of red flashes down, he collapses as his melted brain leaks out of the perfectly circular hole in his scalp. That aught to put the fear of God (or other higher powers) back into your runners.
"Big Brother is watching. And his finger's on the trigger. . . "
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if you are paying a million dollars a year to take out whomever with you when you bite the big one... would you really care about dropping a nuke in the middle of the city? not like you are going to be living here...
You might not, but trust me, no corp is going to want to be known for dropping nukes at the drop of a hat, even if said hat is on the head of a contractee. Basically, let's imagine our contractee (with a nuke contract) bites it while inside some Ares complex in Seattle.
Deathwagon goes in, and drops a small nuke, maybe... 17 kT or so.
This destroys everything in say... 1.5 miles radius (probably more, but I'm assuming fairly hardened non-military targets), in particular including said Ares complex. So what? Well, for one thing, Ares will be mightly pissed. And they'll want their money back, somehow. Now, even if DeathWagon somehow could avoid being legally responsible for the damages, Ares is big, mean and international enough to go after Deathwagon. Chance are that most of the other 'Big Ten' would've lost substantial valuables too, and wouldn't hinder Ares, maybe even aid them.
Then ofcourse there are the secondary targets, some... 17,000 of them in the initial blast, and upwards of a million if we include radiation based deaths. And extra territoriality gets iffy in murder cases. Indeed, ye olde Us went to war for far less.
Losing the money from other contractees in the blast would not be the greatest of your worries either. Contracts would bind you to nuke the area of their deaths too. Soon, you'd have scorched the entirety of Seattle off the map, along with most of your costumer sources.
Oh, and mind you, you might be able to buy a functional nuke for 1 mio nuyen (though I doubt it, seller's market), but that wouldn't include any ICBMs, trust me on that.
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Well how about this? Your Deathwagon packages wouldn't neccessarily be about how big of a hole you can make, but how well you could actually kill the target. You don't need to nuke anything, especially if you aren't trying to send a message. When the Mob blows up a block of businesses, the message is clear: don't frag witht he Mob. When Deathwagon nukes a sprawl, the message gets a bit lost. After all, who's going to know who is a DW subscriber anyway?
So you do something like this:
Basic Services - ¥50,000 a year gets you (1) 4 man hit team. The team includes 1 mage and 1 decker if need. The team will make a total of 3 attempts to kill your killer.
Gold Service - ¥200,000 a year gets you (1) 6 man hit team. The team includes 1 mage and 1 decker. You also have the option for 1 extra mage, or 1 combat rigger. The team will make a total of 5 attempts to kill your killer.
Platinum Service - ¥500,000 a year gets you (1) 8 man hit team. The team includes 2 mages of minimum Initiation Level 2, 1 Decker with SK support. You also have the option for 1 combat rigger. The team will make a total of 6 attempt to kill your killer and 1 attempt to destroy his livleyhood (i.e. ruining his business, reputation, connections, etc.)
Super Platinum Service - ¥1,000,000 a year gets you (2) 6 man hit teams. Each team includes 1 mage of minimum Initiation Level 3 and 1 decker with SK support. One of the team includes a cyberzombie. The teams will make as many attempts to kill your target as is neccessary to do so. This contract is requires a minimum of 2 years of activation before the unlimited attepts clause kicks in, otherwise, the kill teams iwll make a total of 10 attepts to kill you rkiller and 3 attpemts to destroy his livelyhood before his death.
Gabriel
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I like that system! Great work! Moreso, it gives PC's a possible job opportunity, if the standard johnson's have nothing in the works.
Accomplished and reknown Shadowrunners would probably come highly recommended, much in the way that well-to-do mercs can get enlisted into the corps armies without much difficulty. . . and vice-versa.
Although current employees would probably have to be exempt from having a contract for themselves. . . Isn't that how DocWagon works?
Although, anyone who kills a DW employee in the line of duty is probably the main target anyway. . .
-
their logo could be docwagon's red cross, but with a black skull in the middle of it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Good point. Of course, this is TOTALLY illegal in ALL respects. So seeking compensation for business related deaths would be a bit... interesting.
PC: See, your' honor, it's like this. Me and Tusker and Mad Sammy were going in hot to geek this cobber who iced Jack66, when Tusker took a round to the head. That damn Jack66 iced my chummer! So I opened up on him and scragged the fragger real good. But see, Tusker had a wife and a kid, and what are they gonna do for money now that Tusker's ghouls food??
GM (Judge): So let me get this straight, Mr. Boudreaux. You and these two other men broke into the residence of one Jackson Milton with the express purpose of commiting murder. In the process of killing this man, one of your companions, one Charles Montegue, was killed when Mr. Milton shot him in the head. At which time, you killed Mr. Jackson. And now you are seeking compensation from Mr. Jackson's estate?
PC: Um.....
GM (Judge): Balif, please escort Mr. Boudreaux to a holding cell.
Gabriel
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Yea, but sense when have shadowrunner's actions had to hold up in a court of law?
-RUskiFace teh Pirate
it would be like the work we do now... but with full dental insurance.
-
True, but I'm just thinking about how an employee couldn't have a contract. Why not? They would all be a bunch of killers anyway, so why not have that as a perk?? This assumes of course that the target was not the one responsible for the employee's death.
Gabriel
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PC: See, your' honor, it's like this. Me and Tusker and Mad Sammy were going in hot to geek this cobber who iced Jack66, when Tusker took a round to the head. That damn Jack66 iced my chummer! So I opened up on him and scragged the fragger real good. But see, Tusker had a wife and a kid, and what are they gonna do for money now that Tusker's ghouls food??
GM (Judge): So let me get this straight, Mr. Boudreaux. You and these two other men broke into the residence of one Jackson Milton with the express purpose of commiting murder. In the process of killing this man, one of your companions, one Charles Montegue, was killed when Mr. Milton shot him in the head. At which time, you killed Mr. Jackson. And now you are seeking compensation from Mr. Jackson's estate?
PC: Um.....
GM (Judge): Balif, please escort Mr. Boudreaux to a holding cell.
Gabriel
LMAO
No, no, its okay your honor, we're shadowrunners.....
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Thought you'd get a kick out of that one. But you know, I can actually see this happeneing. I realy, realy can.
Gabriel
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Sadly, so can I.
I ran with some gunslingers once. I prefer shadowrunners. Much sneakier, a lot less noisy.
I remember one question popping up about the blast radius on a mouse...
-
A Mouse??? Hoe do you get a mouse to explode???
Gabriel
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I believe the idea was to feed it the last of the unstable explosive or some such...It was a really long time ago and there was an awful lot of noise....
-
Well.... I really don't know what to say.... I would have NEVER thought to wire a mouse for explosives, especially considering thier stomach's would be about the size of a thimble.
Gabriel
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*shrug* well, at least gunslingers tend to be pretty enthusiastic about taking up the job of 'meat shield'
they all want to jump in there and shoot something.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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LOL I never would have thought of it either - it took a dwarf
- and hey you just hit 7 grand!
-
Holy Frag you're right! Beers all around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)(http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Beer.gif)
It's time to PARTY!!!!! (http://members.cox.net/gwire/Smiley - Party.gif)
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Party with explosives?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Hell yeah. And mice too. ;)
Gabriel
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Sounds too twisted to miss! And hey we have a record number on line right now too!
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horrah for posting up a storm!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Post Addiction +2 Edge.
Gabriel
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wouldn't addiction be a flaw?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Not unless it's for consequence IRL
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And besides, for those of use who thrive on nerdosity, this can only help. ;)
Gabriel
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I think i got the +4 version then.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Good point. Of course, this is TOTALLY illegal in ALL respects. So seeking compensation for business related deaths would be a bit... interesting.
PC: See, your' honor, it's like this. Me and Tusker and Mad Sammy were going in hot to geek this cobber who iced Jack66, when Tusker took a round to the head. That damn Jack66 iced my chummer! So I opened up on him and scragged the fragger real good. But see, Tusker had a wife and a kid, and what are they gonna do for money now that Tusker's ghouls food??
GM (Judge): So let me get this straight, Mr. Boudreaux. You and these two other men broke into the residence of one Jackson Milton with the express purpose of commiting murder. In the process of killing this man, one of your companions, one Charles Montegue, was killed when Mr. Milton shot him in the head. At which time, you killed Mr. Jackson. And now you are seeking compensation from Mr. Jackson's estate?
PC: Um.....
GM (Judge): Balif, please escort Mr. Boudreaux to a holding cell.
Gabriel
Runner : : Your Honor! You can't prosecute us! We don't have SINs!
Judge : : Ahem, Baliff, ignore that last order. . .
Runner : : Thank my Karma!
Judge : : Baliff, escort these "non-persons" outside, execute them, and return with their valuables, which are now direct property of the courts. . .
Runner : : *Gulp* Awwh Drek!
~ And as far as legality goes, let's say that you lure the mark to a location that DW had just recently bought. Corporate land lies under corporate Jurisdiction, and if corporate policy is shoot all non-corporate personnel, then problem solved. Or just buy the hut the poor slot is holed up in. Corps can destroy their own buildings, and if "Some poor unidentifiable squatter" got in, who'd lose any sleep, eh?
Bottom line. Corps with money can write their own laws, or buy the best lawyers.
-
Yeah, but just remember: "He who has the most gold...still dies."
-
Yeah, but if it's a choice between going out like Orville Redenbacher (who died in a hot tub full of supermodels while mid-orgy), and Edgar Allen Poe (penniless and despised), I think I'd have to go with the popcorn mogul.
Maybe that's just me.
-kv
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Sure put those supermodels in an awkward posititon. . .
Save vs. Pun damage
-
*Failed*
-
*shrug* I wonder what it costs to rent a hot-tub full of supermodels on an hourly basis?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
You don't got it babe 8)
Hey does anyone else think Curris needs a new avvy? I always think Jester first when I see that one ;)
-
Same problem with me.
*shrug* it's a good pic though. so there's something to be said for helping the image to live on!
Viva La Bruce!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
Lost in time.
Surrounded by evil.
low on gas.
-
Hey Curris,
I think the only flaw with your logic is that not all corporations are extraterritorial, only AAA corporations can apply for and recieve extraterritorial status. Anything smaller than the Big 10 are still subject to the laws of whatever country the reside in. And keep in mind that most subsidiary corporations are not extraterritorail either. Only wholy-owned AAA's get this. So say you have the Death Wagon Corporation as a subsidiary of Ares, they are still only a AA or lower-rated corp. Ares would be subject to Ares law, but Death Wagon would be subject to, say, UCAS law, and therefore totally and COMPLETELY illegal in all senses. And just about every AAA (except possibly Aztechnology) would shy away from DW because of publicity.
Gabriel
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so, aztech it is!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Good point Gabe. . .
Hmm, I don't know if I want the Azzies patching me up. I might end up with less pieces than from before the surgery. . .
-
Exactly. Those bastards are SCARY.
Gabriel
-
I think the only flaw with your logic is that not all corporations are extraterritorial, only AAA corporations can apply for and recieve extraterritorial status. Anything smaller than the Big 10 are still subject to the laws of whatever country the reside in. And keep in mind that most subsidiary corporations are not extraterritorail either. Only wholy-owned AAA's get this. So say you have the Death Wagon Corporation as a subsidiary of Ares, they are still only a AA or lower-rated corp. Ares would be subject to Ares law, but Death Wagon would be subject to, say, UCAS law, and therefore totally and COMPLETELY illegal in all senses. And just about every AAA (except possibly Aztechnology) would shy away from DW because of publicity.
Gabe, where'd you pick up this little 'gem' about extraterritoriality being only for the AAAs?
It's not in the Corporate Shadowguide, which discusses the subject some length, and it's in pretty direct contradiction of some of the stuff in the Shadows of Europe sourcebook.
It's also pretty dodgy from a legal/realistic point of view.
-
It was my understanding that in order to become a AA Corp, they had to be international, and therefore have extraterritoriality?
I remember reading something about mom and pop corps in Seattle setting up offices in Vancouver, so they would be international, and therefore have those rights.
-kv
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I have yet to see strict any definitions of when a Corp is A, AA or AAA. Or F for that matter.
One that could be applied for the AAAs is: Do they have a representative on the Corp Court. If yes, it's an AAA, otherwise it isn't. There may be a better/stricter definition, but I don't recall one.
K_V: A corp can (easily) be international without being extra-territorial. Look a companies like Shell, 7-11 or Maersk, none of which have extra-territorialty, but certainly are multinational if not actually international.
Extra territorialty is significantly different from internationality. It's the right to apply your onw company laws, within a limited area that's strictly speaking part of another country.
Currently only embassies have this, as far as I am aware. Though in some nations, some companies come close.
Remember, the mon'n'pop buisness is still bound by UCAS law in Seattle, and CAS law in Atlanta city, unless it has extra-territoriality, in which case it must have (and apply) it's own laws in each country where it has been granted extra-territoriality.
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A B corp is a national small corporation.
An A-rank corp is a large national or multi-national without granted extra-territoriality.
An AA-rank corp is a larger corp with extra-territoriality
An AAA-rank corp is an extra-territorial corp with a seat on the Corporate Council.
-
And these definitions are based off what?
Extra-territoriality is a bit of a tricky thing, especially if you want it to be realistic (which is very hard to do).
-
Corporate Download, released late third edition. Very clearly it defines how corps are rated.
Legality? Sure, there are a few countries that do not allow extra territoriality in their countries. Aztlan and Tir Tairngire come to mind. However, Saeder-Krupp has subsidiaries in Tir Tairngire, but those are strictly Gov't regulated and not extra-territorial. If you read the history of SR, corporate extra-territoriality was signed by a few of the nuclear super-powers around the turn of the century and the Corporate Court was born through a quagmire of disastrous corporate wars, particularly between Keruba and BMW.
Extra-territoriality is granted by the signatory nature of the Corporate Court. The court itself is responsible for the administration of extra-territoriality. Typically, only powerful A rank corps can make the jump to AA status. This usually requires fragging off one part of the Court in favor of another to allow the 13 members of the Corporate council (all appointed by the Big "X" AAA megas) to vote on the jump to extra-territoriality. Of course, if the corp isn't strong enough, it'll probably be gobbled up by a larger corp before it can make it that far.
-
Interesting.
It's partially (but not entirely) in contradiction of the Corporate Shadowfiles.
Should be possible to reconcile them though.
-
That's the way I understand it. The big court calls the shots, I suspect however that the sovereign nations have to agree as well, but when the CC says so, the nation-states usually agree.
What did Corporate Shadowfiles say about it?
-
It talks at length about the Shiawase Decision, as well as it's precedent, the Seretech decision.
It's explained as a result of the Shiawase decision (which makes it relevant in the US/UCAS and maybe CAS only), and specifies that
The majority of other nation-states, including those considered major players on the world stage, soon enacted laws analogous the the Shiawase Decision. The classes of corporation to which extraterritoriality applies vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. For example, in Germany only the largest and most influential megacorps enjoy extraterritorial status. However, most jurisdictions consider the major megacorporations extraterritorial, with a few minor exception.
-which agrees extremely well with what's in the Shadows of Europe book (read up on scandinavia some day).
It then goes into some of the consequences and limitations of extraterritoriality granted to the corps, and what this means.
It makes limited sense to have the corp court call the shots, because it's the nation-state that's surrendering sovereignity/power. If the CC can order it to, then the nation-state shows clear to all that it's submissive to an external entity, which is a politically bad move (even if likely a economically sound one). It makes sense that the CC can request extraterritorial status for some corp or other, and it makes sense that many/most nations will indulge such a request, to some extent or other (for economic reasons), but I don't see how the CC can have the power to (officially) demand it.
Also please notice that the entire basis for extraterritoriality is a tad shaky here and there, but have been accepted because it furthers the sense of the genre.
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A B corp is a national small corporation.
An A-rank corp is a large national or multi-national without granted extra-territoriality.
An AA-rank corp is a larger corp with extra-territoriality
An AAA-rank corp is an extra-territorial corp with a seat on the Corporate Council.
Bingo! Thanks for the help on that one Retread. I was forgot about the Corporate Court distinction between double and tripple A corporations and to be honest, I didn't feel like digging into my data files.
Gabriel
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Aye, you see the trick is that the Corporate court cannot simply demand a nation-state to accept extra-territoriality, however, since the Corporate Court has jursidiction over all the multinational corporations, they can pass an edict against the smaller corps to boycott said nation-state. Most countries depend on these multinationals for their services. Take the UCAS for example, they require the services of the megacorps, not to mention AAs like Lone Star, Franklin Associates, and DocWagon. If the CC were to pass an edict with sanctions on these smaller companies, say forcing them to abandon their contracts, the UCAS would be hung out to dry. This is why most nation-states obey the whims of the Corporate Court. Who are they going to complain to... the UN? The door was already open, so it's really no surprise to see other companies get extra-territoriality.
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Exactly.
The CC cannot demand extraterritoriality, but can request it.
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It was my understanding that extraterritoriality was something that was kind of a status- I recently bought a couple of SR 1st edition books (yay for Amazon and mis-labeled product pages!), and they talk about how extraterritoriality happened because someone attacked a shipment of corporate goods during a riot, and the security defending the shipment shot up the crowd...
It went to the Supreme Court of the UCAS, and the supreme court decided that because they were protecting corporate interests in a way the civillian and military forces could not, they were justified. Thus clearing the way for every corp to have it's own private security force.
That was my understanding, anyway.
-kv
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IIRC, thet's the Seretech Decision mentioned.
Food riot.
The Shiawase Decision involved radical ecotage-ists and a nukeplant.
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Yay for big business and quasi-political incedence. It just gives me a warm tingle all over when I think about people like this building my future.
Gabriel
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Keep in mind, that by "request" anyone can read "bully into" as most of the CC's decisions.
Especially ones that Aztlan*cough* Aztechnology endorses...
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Ofcourse.
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"Oh? Don't like the way we compete with your podunk nationalized corps? Oh well, I guess we can drop the prices on all our goods. Wait for yours to go belly-up and then charge through the hoop. How about this? We rescind all our public Crashcart and biotech services that we so graciously donate so that your sick and poor suddenly start to fill up the middle class streets and finally start knocking on the doors of your Congress, yes?"
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Go look through shadows of Europe.
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can i assk a silly question what does corp tretiorty have to do with explosives
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Many people would like corp territory to be blown up?
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And they blow YOU up too.
Gabriel
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So, how does explosives work in SR4? (Wrong thread, perhaps, but who cares?)
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Well, the title is "Explosives". Doesn't specify which ed