Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => SR3 (Shadowrun 3rd Edition) General Discussion => Topic started by: Capt_North on February 03, 2006, 09:56:25 PM
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found this site while just kinda searching around.. gives good stuff for gun making for those who dont have that info on hand..
http://users.erols.com/elspud/sr/firearms/fcr_intro2.html#caliber
Also.. was wondering if nybody knows what the damage rating and such would be on a .454 casual round.. things only like.... 600 foot-pounds short of a 500 round and thats 2,600, a 44 mag is about... 900. those are kind of rounds you use to hunt grizzlies...
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Well, I prescribe to the damage codes at Raygun's Site (http://matrix.dumpshock.com/raygun)
It says .454 Casull is a 10S wound. I'd hate to see that in flechette, that's for sure.
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.... ouch? no.. maybe more like.. *hideous(sp) scream of mortal pain*
ya.. i think that fits more. for a flechette round... i think... splat? maybe..
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You fire your massive revolver at the ganger, his right shoulder explodes as your .454 Casull hollow-point round mushrooms as devastating shrapnel. The gentle slopping sounds of gibs of gore and bone fragment hitting plascrete dances on your ears.
"Hey, Razor, looks like I got that chip off after all!"
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*sniffles and wipes a tear from his cheek*
Wow... I didnt know such a beautiful picture could be painted with words....
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Course, you got what? 7 shots?
better make them count.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Precisely, unless you're a GM that doesn't count the bullets in anyone's guns, then what?
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acturly i wonder if you could make a spell that acturly created bullets in the gun
then lock the spell on the gun
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Nope. Well, maybe not "nope" but the drain for crasting a spell that "created" complex manufactured chemical compounds and arranged them like that would be horrendous. Who would even be able to stand up after casting it, much less be able to fire the gun??
Gabriel
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Yea. it would be easyer to bind a laser spell to the barrel and have it set to activate anytime someone pulled the trigger.
same effect, with less drain.
and you could turn a streetline special into a death-cannon.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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true
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OK, I want to hear the procedure for that. And I mean lay the rules out for me because I may have just found a new enemy for my PC's.
Gabriel
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Well, I'm not sure how exactly it would work... you'd have to anchor the spell... and tie it off with the required karma...
the trigger to set it off would be pulling the trigger on the gun, that's not a big deal... I don't know about unlimited ammo... I guess if you had a buncha karma, you could set up a que of some sort. or you could enchant individual bullets, but then you'd have the same ammo problem that mercy was trying to get out of...
I don't know how you'd set it to only cast ONE of the spells, unless you found a way to tie one spell to the end of the other, so that when it was cast, it qued up the next version...
-RuskiFace the Priate
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alter the spell so that pulling the trigger is a somantic componet
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but, let's say you wanted 'unlimited' shots out of the thing.
how would you dump multiple spells into it, all with the same missing somantic component, and NOT have them all go off when you pulled the trigger once?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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*as Jack pulls the trigger, fifty laser spells go off, vaporizing Mr Johnson, his troll guards, the people behind them, the wall behind that, and some of the cars in the street outside*
-kv
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Anchoring that many spells is a sort of waste of time, really. I mean, the same effect could be achieved with better effect by actually using a laser gun. The only spells you could anchor effectively in expendable anchoring foci would be force 2 spells. That way, you could soak the karma loss with your Enchanting roll. A force 2 focus would require 4 successes on the subsequent enchanting test to reduce the bonding cost.
Finding the target would be nasty too, since there's really no way to make a spell target someone. In the bullet scenario, you'd have to make the bullet activate on the destruction of the round (not the bullet) The gun itself could be the specific spell focus to use to resist the effect of the drain on the actual anchoring. In the end, it's really not worth it compared to a few 50 nuyen grenades or some APDS clips. Now, a gun that's a Force 6 Aim spell Sustaining Foci, that's useful!
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Yeah, but the Enhanced Aim Spell is a form of Detection spell, requiring a specific person to be cast on. So the gun would be great, but only for one guy. And that's if you could get something as complex as a gun to be used as a focus in the first place.
Gabriel :gabe:
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you could always just use the mother of pearl grips as the focus.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
I know a sniper that does that for assination runs.
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Actually, that's a good idea. Get some ivory, carve it yourself, and engrave it yourself and you could even use it as a vrgin telesma, reducing the Enchanting Test to create.
Gabriel
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and you could have two of them... one for each side.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Actually, I think the pair would count as one focus, but that's just me.
Gabriel
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*shrug* could probibly work either way.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Would a hand-carved wood stock work? (This would probably be for rifles/shotguns)
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Yep. Just remember, the more complex the item (and in this case it would be the chemistry of the stocks) the harder it is to enchant. So for example, you may enchant a few bird bones and some sood ash mixed together and tied with a leather cord and coated with bee's wax into becoming a power focus easily enough. However, using pieces of plastic, wire, and superglue would make it tougher, since they are refined, complex compounds. Trying to enchant a cyberdeck or car would be next to impossible, but could be done with enough Karma and time. So if you have focus that is "natural" like wood or ivory, you have a much easier time. And if you actually grow the try, chop the wood, carve the wood, and finish the wood yourself with "non modern" tools, then it gets even easier becasue the material is considered to be virgin, as in "no other aruas have contacted it."
Gabriel, who has a shaman chummer
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It's a lot of work though. you can't even buy 'all natural' vegtables in the store and count them as vergin.
and there's a LOT of work that goes into keeping that crap clean.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yep. So have fun getting a virgin telesma.
Gabriel
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Yeah, ever tell that to a street shaman? I've seen them turn some of the strangest things into telesma. You've got pieces of steel bent into funny shapes, chunks of plasticrete from blow up buildings and sewer mold. In the end, it didn't appear much more difficult for the street shaman to enchant. He said something to me about "the nature of the material is more integral than it's origin." I guess what he was implying was that the artificial nature of the items had little to do with that, because the magic he was using them for was based on the objects themselves. The steel he used for Shrapnel focus, the Plasticrete for an Urban Renewal focus, and the slime for summoning Sewer Spirits (Spirit of the Waters) He said it was some kind of trick that he had learned, didn't give it a name though.
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sounds like 'GMPerogative' to me.
LOL
it's an ancient secret. not a lot of people can even use it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Nah, the principle of using something related to the effect may be a GM Prerogative, but I would let my Street Shaman do that. It makes more sense for their telesma to come from the City than from some pile of crystals and flowers out in the woods, doesn't it?
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Yea. I'd let it work too.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I would agree on a case to case basis. No matter what, NO ONE is getting to enchant a a car as a focus without monolithic penalties. By the same token, you aren't going to see anyone running around with a circuit board turned into Boot Intelligence focus either. Pieces of refined metals and bits of something that has cause you personal harm, yes, I can see those working just fine. But highly refined chemicals, or highly complex tech, not on your life. That goes against everything the rules were written for. No magical guns, cars, cybernetics, etc.
Gabriel
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awww... no magical guns? how sad!
oh well. Neil the Orc Barbarian once had to fight a magical gunman.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, if Niel foguth him, then it had to be real. :P
Gabriel
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Yea! I got his autograph at disneyland once.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, and Karl Kombatmage is my cousin. ;)
Gabriel
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no, he was hanging out with 'the biggest mermaid' on one of the floats, smoking, and he signed my book-thingie.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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At virtual-world Disney??? Chummer, that was frame and you know it.
Gabriel
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*shrug* perhaps. but still. it's closer than most people have gotten to him.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Depends on what kind of car we're talking about here, Gabe. Looking at it realistically, if you pulled all the fluids out of a 1957 Chevy Coupe, it would have a relatively low enchanting difficulty because it doesn't use any computers, or high tech alloys or any of that jazz. So it's target number to enchant would be relatively low. Additionally, if the character wanted to blow 600,000 nuyen on Orichalcum to lower the target number then let them, it's their money. There's nothing that says you can't have an enchanted car in the canon. In fact, the original SR 3 book said that foci can be dual-purposed, and they give an example of a focus that's also a radio. Just don't expect to get the virgin materials and hand-made telesma bonuses when you make your Car Familiar.
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Sorry, but anything as complex as a car will have an astronomical Target Number on it. There are FAR too many components, and too much processing to be considered non-refined or low-tech. Object resistance on a car is what, 8, 10, something like that? So that Tn for the enchanting will be equally as high. Now considering that the car will need to use fluids as part of its normal opperations, those would need to be present during the enchanting. You could probably change out the fluids as normally once the car is enchanted, but they would have to be there at first. Doing it any other way would be like enchanting ONLY the sword blade and leaving off the hilt and pommel. Then saying that the PC could attach that blade to a hilt and pommel and have an enchanted sword. Nope.
And as with everything else, game balance needs to be observed. They never say youCAN'T enchant a car, just that it would be monumentally difficult. And I agree. Letting a PC drop the TN's to do this is flirting with game imbalance in a very real and dangerous sense.
Gabriel
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What about enchanting a component of the car? Ie, the steering wheel with some kind of reaction bonus?
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The rules are pretty clear here, if you add enough Orichalcum you can enchant anything, a barrel of toxic waste even. The reason you don't see this is because it's just too damn expensive. But if the player has 600 large then they should be able to spend it as they see fit. If you spent 880,000 nuyen on 10 units of Orichalcum, then you could feasibly negate the Object Resistance Rating of the car. Of course, why would you spend that much money on something like that. Anything can be enchanted, anything, just like you can ward anything, or cast a spell on anything, you just have to deal with the penalties involved. Fortunately, if this particular stick bothers you, you can feel relieved to know most players never play magic-users, let alone use enchanting to any effect.
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I play magic users, but they're all adepts. Little different from playing a mage
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Handy part about that is that an adept can use enchanting.
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*Scratches head* never really figured out to do it, though. I've never had a game last long enough to try.
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And the question arises: if you can't cast spells, can you enchant anything with a spell effect, and how? It's been FOREVEr since I looked at that rule set.
Gabriel
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Enchanting only makes foci.
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Naw, you'd need sorcery, and adepts can't get that.
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Unless, of course, you're a mage adept, right?
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Checking out books i just got an idea.. if one was to Dikote the inside of a shotgun barrel.. would that solve the problem generally found with Dragons breath rounds? or would the heat from the rounds still cause the barrel to warp? and if not, could you also do the same with some heavy machine guns or such that tend to overheat...?
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You know, Captain, that's a damn good question. I don't think anyone's ever thought of that. I wouldn't let dikoting negate the effects you mentioned, but you could probably help them out. For instance, if those fireball rounds warp the barrell after X number of shots, then double the number. Something like that.
Gabriel
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I have to admit I don't remember the heat conduction characteristics of diamond, but i think they're rather poor though.
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yea, you can burn a diamond pretty easy...
-RuskIFace the Pirate
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a Diamonds thermal conductivity..
Thermal Conductivity: Superb. 5-25 Watts/centimeter-degreesC (at 300 K). 4 times greater than copper, an excellent thermal conductor.
Electrical Conductivity: 0 to ~ 100 ohm-cm (resistivity at 300 K), an insulator.
So... heat it just pretty much transfers easily... eletricity its a very expensive insulator...
least these are the store type diamonds.. what they are explaining might be bit different..
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Ah, very good. Then there's a good chance it'd work swell.
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I know industrial-grade diamonds are used for drill bits.
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Ofcourse.
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a little known fact about that though... you have to run water over the dimond bits; so that they don't burn up as you use them.
(I sell them at my work)
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I'd heard they use mud
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well, depends on the scale you are talking about, and what you are cutting.
if you are cutting through granite... you use a dimond tip, and pour water on it.
if you are cutting through something else, i suppose it would be possible to just use recycled water and combine it with a form of strip-mining to get the job done.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Dikote is very handy, especially when you use it against vehicles.
I remember 2nd edtion Dikote rules let you cut vehicles in half with a dikoted katana or claymore.
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yep, a Wolverine shaman of ours did that once. With 2 lonestar guys still inside, they never made it out.
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Sounds gruesome, did they die out of the GM's need for convenience or damage after the Crash Test?
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the car was holding still, he frenzied, pulled his dikoted katana, and (according to the dice) destroyed the car. I looked aghast at it a bit, and then figured that if you destroy a car by swinging wildly at it with a sword, anyone inside dies too.
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*shrug* perhaps HTR came and cut them out of it afterwards?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Whatever, that would've been 'off screen'
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Hee, they toned back the Dikote rules because of that. Now they don't ignore hardened armor and only get +1 damage level. So a vehicle still gets double body double armor to resist. Just have to settle for slicing motorcycles in half...
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if you got a motavated troll adept you could probibly still pull it off with a car...
a little import anyways... dunno if it would work on a bus...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, human with rating 4 muscle replacement can do that too ;P
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how about a troll with a rating 4 mussle replacement?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
lookout bus!
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Yeah, 15 STR and +3 reach gives you a distinct advantage in melee vs. vehicle combat, I imagine.
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hahahahaha... yea... it would.
he would be slow as all get though.
seriously, you'd think more trolls would go in for wired reflexes... they are strong enough... you'd think they'd be happy being twice as strong as every other body builder.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, I'd go with the senseware so I could know where my opponents are. That and a knowsoft link and some chipjacks. Everyone expects the troll or ork to be stupid, so you can astound them with linguistics and other skills.
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actually, for the next adventure KV is going to be GMing, and I just made a (non adept though) Troll, who's main skils is Build/Repair.
went someting like
A SKills
B attributes
C Race (troll)
D wealth
E magic
he had barely enough money for a minigun, gyromount, and a used smartlink; but he's got some amazing skills.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I use the BeCK system for making all of my characters, you end up with more well-rounded realistic skill sets. This is most especially useful for Riggers who want a main skill with supplements for lesser vehicle skills (Tracked and Boat) and their B/R counterparts.
See, by using natural karma expenditure, you can realistically flesh out knowledge skills: You can get two dozen rating 1 or 2 skills (knowledge and active) as opposed to the, "OMG! I need 6s" This is primarily because 1 build point is worth more karma when spent on rating 6 skills. You curb the min-maxing significantly.
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*shrug* I got a program that uses the priority system, and i'm too lasy at this point to do them by hand.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
I'm writing a new program to roll up PC's in 4th edition though... so I'm not super lasy.
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NSRCG uses the BeCKS too, you know.
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but that tab was waaaaay far away.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Right... I bet you'd lose an arm before you'd reach for a tourniquet for your hand, eh?
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actually, for the next adventure KV is going to be GMing, and I just made a (non adept though) Troll, who's main skils is Build/Repair.
went someting like
A SKills
B attributes
C Race (troll)
D wealth
E magic
he had barely enough money for a minigun, gyromount, and a used smartlink; but he's got some amazing skills.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
That sounds like an NPC I had in my last campaign namde Spanky. He had a BIG crush on one of my runners, a human gillete named Galena, and became a contact iwth the rest of us to impress her. To give you an example of the things Spanky did, when we met up with (an thretened him) he was listening to Bache with the dial cranked up to 11, and working on an Excalibur cyberdeck. The guy was good.
I had a lot of fun with this guy, and everyone was impressed that he could actually spell, much less fix anything. So he kept his brains to himself, and played the "big dumb troll" when in public. He carried a wrench for no apparent reason and had a "Kiss me I'm a troll" badge on his jumpsuit as a kind of stereotypical troll look. Nice guy.
Gabriel
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Chains, leather, electical cords, I know the troll look :P
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it's cool when you can pull off some of thoes eletrical cords and use them to fix stuff...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Aye, of course, I'd settle for a Microtronics toolkit...
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but it's tough to walk into a place with a toolkit... it's much easyer if it's part of your outfit...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I can see wires or even circuit boards if they were done right, but could you reall pull off a souldering iron as an accessory???
Gabriel
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Trolls are big people... there's a lot of room to hide a soldering gun in all the chains and wires...
could make an ear-ring out of it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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And the solder could be woven into a bracelet or neck chain or something.
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Well, I suppose you could hide it in a comparment implanted into a horn...
Gabriel
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yea, they are big and lumpy. lots of places to hid stuff.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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And when is the last time you saw ANYONE frisk a troll?
Well, I saw this gay security guard feeling one up, but he got his. ;D
-kv
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That's...just plain disturbing.
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"Is that a minigun in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
-RuskiFace teh Pirate
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*snicker* maybe it's a Force 8 manabolt.
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well, i figure with a troll, equpted with his stealth-4 rating skill
while wearing the gyromount recoil reduction harnis with a concilability of '-', carrying arround a minigun, with a concilability of '-' and 200 rounds of belted ammo with a concilability of 'yea right'
that his problem is not 'I wonder if they'll notice' but more
'i wonder if they are going to say anything'
kuz personally... I'd just let the big mean motherfragger buy his nachos and leave.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Troll+gyrostabilized minigun+ammobelt="I'll be going now."
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This begs the question of whether or not computer tech in 2050+ actually uses solder and microchips. I figured everything was done optically with a kind of artificial organism that "twiddles" between red and green when exposed to light. I don't think your basic soldering iron can work with microcircuitry, let alone the dikoted nanotech variety you'll see in some of your higher rated maglocks.
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You know... i cant help but wonder this.. on the comment bout gay security guard frisking up the troll getting his... exactly what did That mean.. cause.. well... ... ya...
I dedicate that post to my Bunk mate at JC, Jason M.
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Well, I think you're gonna see a troll get frisked first, while all the other security guards on duty have their hands on their Tasers and Predators loaded with APDS...
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If i was a security guard going up to frisk a troll, and all i had was a taser... I'd shoot myself, and take the rest of the day off to recoperate.
as far as the microchips and processors goes... even optical circuts will break, need to be replaced, and have the ability to be modified.
you could run fibreoptic cable all through your ensamble, and have a optic heat patch gun in your pocket just as easily.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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True. Those pretty crystal looking chips would make nice jewelry too, and you don't have to worry about static safety, either!
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so, 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
mostly, a troll wearing anything isn't likely to be bothered.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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That's...just plain disturbing.
You should go back and read some of the more ancient posts about Kid_Vid's "special friend". Nice danty troll, that guy was. And apparently, he had a pretty mouth. At least acording to Kid_Vid. ;)
Gabriel
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Tusks and Horns are Tres Chic this time of year...
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Hey never mock a hot ork chic. I may be an elf, but I'm no snob. And I've dated a few nova hot ork-girls in my time.
Gabriel
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Hey never mock a hot ork chic. I may be an elf, but I'm no snob. And I've dated a few nova hot ork-girls in my time.
Well, maybe, but I happen to be female, myself, and I don't exactly swing that way. ;)
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LOL, can you imagine the impact on this board full of nerds if you DID???? :o
Gabriel
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Considering what some of the guys I know are like, yeah.
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I don't know... with the cost of plastic surgery so low, I'd imagine that most of the 'nova hot orc chicas' that you 'worked' with, were actually probibly just humans, who opted for some reconstructive work, to be 'in fashion'
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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...huh?
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Yeah, AJ, I'm kind of wondering what the hell he means too. :-\
Gabriel
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the many flocks of humans are trying to modify themselves to look more 'awakened', orc and troll-like.
so, that ork joy girl you picked up, could just be a human with some fang implants.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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ah aha.
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Yeah, or that could be a real Ork with the Good-Looking and Knows It edge...
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now that would be interesting. hmm, just thought of something: An orc social adept?
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Well, it's not like anyone ever uses the Charisma vs. Racism check anyway...
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the many flocks of humans are trying to modify themselves to look more 'awakened', orc and troll-like.
so, that ork joy girl you picked up, could just be a human with some fang implants.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
Well, chummer, I'm not in the habit of picking up joygirls. Being an elf does have one or two advantages, you know. Getting laid fairly often is one of them. And beieve me, if whe were stock-human, I would be able to tell you. ;)
As for the Orc social adept thing, why not? Orcs are so prevelent in certain sprawls, including Seattle, that they are a very common sight. They might have a bad rep as a metatype, but on an indevidual basis, they have just as much diversity as any of us.
Gabriel
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Orks are probably the least played character type though, which is kinda bothersome.
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Well, being from the south, I have heard the analogy that "orcs are the new n***ers." Now, I hate hearing it put that way, but the way the literature is written for SR shows that Orcs are on the lowest social/economic class in almost every area they settle. At least in North America. Check out SOTA '64 and read the section on Orzet, the orc language and you will see what I mean. The entire artical had a Boyz in the Hood feel to it with parallells being drawn between modern day inner city black populations and SR-era Orc populations.
I assume that between that and the fact that orcs are bigger/tougher than humans, but are smaller/weaker than trolls, people simply skip over then to get to trolls. The same goes for dwarves. Who wants resistance to pathogens when they can get a lifespan of "yes" and an inteligence boost???
Gabriel
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well, for myself, I like playing orcs for the 'down and out' PC types.
Sparkey, my car thief (who I played for a large number of runs) was an orc... and I've had more than my fair share of dwarf mechanics / riggers. (they just seem to be built for eachother)
currently I'm plyaing a troll with a maxed out intelegence.
*shrug* go figure.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I've seen a fair numbe rof orcs played, partially exactly because they're a bit 'troll-light'.
Trolls have always gotten more racism around here, and some players will kinda assume that you're just running amok if you play a troll, while orcs are... still within the reasonable.
Ofcourse, we had some fun for a while, playing in London, with the South Themes Black Orcs.
(Warhammers players are more likel to get that joke...)
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LOL, were they called the 'ard Boyz????
Gabriel
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WWWWWWWWWAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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... minus the [/b] ....
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LOL, were they called the 'ard Boyz????
that was just their muscle team ;)
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Well, remember, they're called "orks" not "orcs" Also, anyone who is in the know, knows that Orzet is the Orkish language from... you know what.
:glances at Gabe:
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and here I just thought most orks spoke 'gutter slang'
-RuskiFace the Gutter Pirate
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Well, remember, they're called "orks" not "orcs" Also, anyone who is in the know, knows that Orzet is the Orkish language from... you know what.
:glances at Gabe:
You know, Retread, sometimes I really HATE you. ;) But yeah, I figured it might have been a reference to that game. I have to say that I love the idea of a 4th World with all the usual suspects in it, but I still think the SR version should be separet from the ED version. We do, after all, have a collssal amount of archialogical data going back tens of thousands of years. ED was made to be an ancient "present" that wouldn't really conform to the past of today. But that having been said, I'm glad SOMEONE found the old orc language.
Gabriel
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Found it? Nah, Dunkie gave it to that one chica in his will, if I recall...
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You know, Retread, sometimes I really HATE you. ;) But yeah, I figured it might have been a reference to that game.
And I was sort of sitting there waiting for Retread to mention it.
How many of you have access to both SOTA 2064 and ED: Denizens (sp?) of Barsaive 2?
There are snippets of Ork/Orzet in both, they line up pretty well.
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I wonder if they ever plan to do an Earthdawn 2nd Edition???
Gabriel
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WEll, given that I own a book by that name, I'd say it's a safe bet the would, yes.
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Tee!
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I thought they let it die?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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2nd edition Earthdawn was released a while ago... I used to own the 2nd ed ED book, hardcover.
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so it's 3rd edition that'll probibly never see the light of day?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, you smart as Eupropean! I meant 3rd edition. :P
Gabriel
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I don't know, ask Living Room Games, they're the ones developing it right now. Who knows?
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you have to play it in a living-room? I always game in the den. i guess it won't work out for me...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Lets see, I've playing in conference rooms, a phone room, hallways, living rooms, college dorm lounges...even outside a couple times when there was nowhere else to go. (Not always Shadowrun, but games in general.)
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So, Retread, are you going to go all psycho-hyper on us when this gets released??? ;) If so, give me a few days warning so I can prepare myself. :P
Gabriel
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LOL
"Am Geek, will Travel."
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Probably not, I don't really keep to in touch with Earthdawn news. I mostly use what I know about the 4th world in my 6th world campaigns.
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Ahh... I see
-RuskiFace the Pirate
they should come up with a 5th world ruleset.
lawyers and colledge kids.
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Wouldn't a 5th World be like Earthdawn and Shadowrun, but with no magic or cyberwear?
It would be like... normal life.
No one would have a stat above 6. ;D
-kv
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Eh, there are still exceptional people. Don't forget those Immortal Elves too...
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yea, but they would be in hiding at that point...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Eh, the intro to Harlequin shows Ehran and Harlequin dueling in Paris, I believe.
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So you would have some WWI and WWII scenarios, and a few people with attributes about 6 (Einstein would have an 8 because he was jewish and cool), and then the damage reduction and everything would be cool.
Hmmm... I'd be kind of interested to play a game set in the 5th World... just normal Shadowrun rules, no magic or cyberwear...
-kv
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could be interesting
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I wonder if we could set up a 'war' campaign... WW1 or WW2 like that?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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That would be fun... I'd play it.
Maybe we could set up a PBP thread under the concept. Of course, we'd have to re-work the priority ratings and stuff, because no one would need magic or races. We'd have a bunch of millionaire skillmen on our hands.
So, what would be the starting skill pool?
What about money? Damage ratings of weapons (swords and stuff would stay the same, but what about guns?)
-kv
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guns haven't actually changed that much.
let's take away the money too. they are in the army / navy / whatever. you only get whatever they want to give you.
there could be an edge of 'rich parrents' that'll give you a little more spending cash or something.
just two priorities, resources, and attributes.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Attibutes and skills, you mean?
So, what would be the starting pools for either?
Priority A Attributes: X points
Priority B Attributes: Y points
Priority A Skills: W points
Priority B Skills: V points
How would 'College Education' and 'tech school education' come into it?
-kv
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well, edges; like they are now.
but in the army, you get to be an officer if you have a colledge education... so let the buyer beware...
-Ruski
actual point wise, I don't know. something that'll let them have all '3's' and two 4's for priority 2 rescources, and something that'll let them have all 4's and one 5 with priority A
max it out at a single '6' attribute
and skills... hmmm...
stealth 3
gun 3
drive 3
flavor 3
extra flavor 3
hobby 3
gernade 3
unarmed combat 3
what's that work out to?
-Ruski
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Well, if your attributes are all 3s with one 4, that's 19 points.
All 4s with a 5 is 25 points.
As for skills,
stealth 3
gun 3 (pistol or rifle?)
drive 3
flavor 3
extra flavor 3
hobby 3
grenade 3
unarmed combat 3
is... 24? That's for priority B, right? So Priority A would have What... 30 skillpoints?
Rather than a tech-school education, we could say a 'specialty school', as in 'dive school' for navy divers, or training to use a LMG or parachuting or something.
I was looking at the description of 'College Education' and 'Tech School Education' in the NSRCG, and the only difference seems to be that for College Education, the defaults for resorting to Academic skills is a lot lower, and for Tech school, defaulting to background knowledge skills is lower. Are there other benefits that I'm not remembering?
We could have a third priority, for contacts/resources. (Like you said, the rich daddy's boy)
-kv
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Hmm... okay, so what's the levels for wealth?
high end... enough to buy a small airplane?
like $100,000 ?
low end, dirt poor... starting with $2,000
(clothes and such)
what could you buy that would really effect your situation?
contacts? is $5K a good price for that?
how about $10K so a priority A guy could get 10 contacts that could help him out...
*shrug*
again, everyone in the army already gets a gun or a tank or a parashoot, comes with the job.
-Ruski
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Well, WWII, they were just coming out of the depression. I'd say for dirt poor, $2,000 would be a lot. A couple hundred would probably be more realistic. Things cost a lot less than they do now or in Shadowrun. I mean, movies back then were what, a dime? A quarter?
And contacts could be a good one for a priority.
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Hmm... okay.
so, contacts.
you get 5 with priority 1
and 0 with the lowest priority.
-RuskiFace
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Maybe some different contacts could be resistance fighters, medics, ranking officers, actors/actresses, smugglers (gotta have a supply of booze and cigarettes back then, right)?
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So for priority A, you'd get 5 contacts, 3 with priority B, and 1 with priority C?
(hey, even the guy with no friends needs someone to get a cigarette from)
So we're looking at WWII era campaign? I like the idea.
-kv
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Maybe there could be skills for animal handlers, specializing by animal? (I know there were dogs, and I know there were still horses in WWI, but I'm not sure about WWII)
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could jump to 'Nam if we wanted to get some more advanced weaponry.
also, I'd like to have 'generic' skills, and 'specific' skills.
so, generic skills go up to 3, and beyond that you have to get specific.
so, you can have a 'guns' of 3, and a pistols 4 and a rugar super armsman of 5, and (more exacting more exacting etc)
for a level 6 skill to work, you've gotta controll the enviroment pretty well... otherwise you only get 'secondhand' knoledge, and the skill reverts to one of it's more generic forms.
-Ruski
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okay, so you're talking skillgroups like 4th edition?
So we'll have one for guns. Another for boats? Planes?
How many other skills can we lump in together like that?
-kv
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well, how about 'drive' of 1
boats / planes / cars / bikes of 2
boats: rear motor, hydrofoil, submarine, battleship of 3
so on and so forth?
-RUski
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Okay, so are we looking at WWII? No WWI or 'naum?
-kv
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Hmm... yea, let's start with WWII
-Ruski
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So, out of anyone who can keep up reading between Ruski and I post-hogging, would anyone else want to play a 5th world PBP?
-kv
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I'd be interested sure, but are you planning on making like regular soldiers vs. soldiers war? Or more of a special forces infiltration game.
I would recommend making it more tactics and strategy orientated. Without High-tech, or magic, you would have less commandos and one men armies. Teamwork and squad tactics should be the order of the day, to make a balanced game. (But you all knew that already)
Actually. . . A commando based WWII squad is a good idea.
Stealth missions, to sabotage, to recon, to assassination, to defending a town guerrila style, to stealing maps, or code machines, to stealing enemy war machines, to blowing something up. This could work out very well.
Sounds better than vanilla soldier. March, build base, fire shells, defend ambush, move out, build new base, etc.
So yeah, I'm interested, but still wondering what angle you were going to take it?
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well, standard ops shadowrun style gameplay.
sneak in, drop off, extraction, etc.
still have weapons specalists, snipers, demolitions experts, electronic warefare, chopper pilots, and all that.
only real tough part would be putting together a 'team'
kuz if we got a navy seal with a buncha dive gear, a skydiver, and a sniper who can drive a submarine, it's going to be tough to get them together
could do that cheesey 'special operations joint task force' bit though...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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yeah, but that sounds like it would suck. I never liked the whole "you are all here because you're the best of the best, and we can't think of any other reason for you to all work together!"
So we'll probably figure out how many people want to play, and design a mission for a X-manned squad (4 or 6 would be my guess, although the Gm could pick up the slack)
And then from there, we'll decide who gets to be the sniper, medic, heavy weapons, commander, and everything.
-kv
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could keep the criminal element, and let them all be in jail for some reason or another, and this is a 'last chance' for them to redeem themselves.
-Ruski
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I think this could really be an interesting game.
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Dirty Dozen style?
-kv
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I'll need to watch that.
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Yea. OOooor. we could go hogan's heros. you are in a POW camp, and first order of buisness is to escape...
that could level the PC playing field a little better...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I like the POW camp idea. Did a report on them in Jr. High. I used The Great Escape (Book, not movie) as one of my references. Some of the stuff they came up with were truly ingenius.
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Hmm... so 'back to the shack' would be 'the great escape'
interesting... I like it.
from there, you did such a good job of tearing up the enemy country, they give you some guns and tell you to go back to it... that would be a good way to form a team like that...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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yeah, and you could have a bunch of different skillsets (and different armies- british and french freedom fighters alongside american POWs).
I like. So 'back to the shack' becomes 'hogan's heroes'?
-kv
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well, if you get caught, over and over again, it becomes hogan's heros.
back to the shack should be 'the great escape' you do it once, then you are free to be bossed arround by the joint cheif of staff... or you could just sit out the war in germany, making up your own runs.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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The only problem I could see is that, historically, most escapees split up so that, if one of them were killed or recaptured, the others still had a chance. And it work best playing Allied soldiers held in Germany. Not that there weren't escape attempts elsewhere, but the German-held prisonors had the best chance of reaching friendly or neutral territory.
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Hmm... wouldn't be much of a team building exersize if everyone split up right after breaking out...
perhaps the point up to the getaway is the point we should follow it to.
everyone breaks out, then you get recruited after getting home for some special ex-pow operations.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Hey, doesn't mean we couldn't change things a little for the sake of the game.
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no, of course not. but inorder to avoid long drawn out periods of people going at it by themselves, it would probibly be best if we 'skipped' the solo parts, and concentrated on team exersizes.
but, in Play By Post, it actually wouldn't matter that much. *shrug*
-Ruski
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Okay, so we'll stage the breakout first.
Then... how are we putting everyone in a group?
-kv
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well, after the breakout, nomatter what faction you came from, you get recruited by a Allied workforce that reports to the five star general himself. secret of course, and it works behind the curtan, so proven stealth skils are 'a must'... best place to pick up that kinda troops... is Ex-pow's.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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okay, works for me. I take it you'll be running us through this, Ruski, as the person who can post the most out of anyone?
-kv
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Yea, sure. why not.
Let's get you guys drawing up some PC's, and working on a back-story, I'll drop them in a POW camp... and we'll go from there.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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So, who all is in on this?
Curris expressed an interest. AJ's been here the whole time. Ingo said something about it. Jester? Ruski's NPC russian doctor?
-kv
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This will sound silly, but you could do a Sixth world angle on it, whereby the Holocaust is actually a huge form of Blood magic, so areas where Death Camps etc. are become artificially mana-permeated but also lure the characters towards a Corrupted or Twisted path. Remember, Hitler had a thing with the occult and such. I bet he had some weird goons researching Ritual Sorcery and the ilk.
The idea is not to make it inherently magical, but throw in subtleties like the players suddenly developing strange abilities or suddenly being able to speak with dead soldiers or seeing ghosts.
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I like the idea, and we can work in storylines like that, but for the most part, I think we're thinking about bridging the gap between the fourth world (Earthdawn) and the Sixth world (Shadowrun). So no magic, and all that.
Although it does interest me that the Holocaust would be Blood Magic. I mean, if Hitler worked with Lugh Surehand, and was trying to get the great ghost dance started early, what would he need to do it? A bunch of artifacts, and a shitload of power!
I likes the idea, although it seems a little like the Hellboy universe.
-kv
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That's sort of where I was going with it. You could have minor "psychic" abilities, which basically function as direct illusions and detection spells of the sort.
Seems like a "magically active" character would be at a severe disadvantage only having a Magic rating of 1 at creation, so the only spells they could use would be very very weak, and limit the ratings of "sorcery." Conjuring is right out the window. Somatic adept abilities might be possible, but the same as before, a base of 1 Magic in such a low mana area.
On the note of Blood Magic, the sacrifice of energy from the victims is where the power comes from, which is why Blood magic is inherently dangerous as it often leads the users into a crazy lust for power. That could be used as a backdrop for the nature of the second world war, even if it is like Hellboy.
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Well, I was liking the idea of villifying the immortal elves (easy Gabe!), because they would be the only ones who truly would be able to work the summonings and such. They would be in league with Hitler... well, because the Allies didn't go batshit crazy with the occult.
So the 5th worlders would be working for the Allies, and eventually get latched onto this project, because it would make Retread happy.
I guess Ruski was bowing out as GM, so I'll take over, but that still means that everyone needs to make characters.
Will some brave soul step up to the challenge?
-kv