Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => Magic and the Planes => Topic started by: Retread on February 12, 2006, 09:16:30 PM
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I've been doing some research over the various Canon references, and in perusing the Shadows of Asia book, I noticed there's a section that mentions what might be True Water:
pg. 28 (SoA)
> From what I’ve heard, Wuxing discovered an alchemical
water radical, which they call longlei (dragon tears), in some of
the South China Sea’s underwater gorges and pools. As with
any other alchemical radical, though, general industrial mining
will ruin it, which is why Shiawase’s presence is a big problem.
> Li Hsen Chang
What kind of mojo could you cook up with this kind of stuff?
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Additionally, I also noticed that where these elements are showing up at is where all the "comet Orichalcum" came from. That is to say, perhaps the Earth's geology went through an amorphic change, similar to SURGE or UGE. So say you have this seemingly innocuous rock, but during the comet it changes into natural orichalcum, you mine the orichalcum and refine it, so it stays like that, but if you leave it, it changes into one static element instead of a combination of all 4.
Orichalcum in the Earthdawn sense, is a mixture of all True elements (save True Wood, I believe) Now in Shadowrun, Orichalcum that is found naturally is like this but isn't as potent as artificially produced Orichalcum which is a series of Metal radicals.
So if there were undiscovered Orichalcum deposits in say, the highest mountain peaks, do they turn into True Air? Under the sea becomes Water, and so on?
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interesting idea... but there's no good way to test it...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Refresh my memory here, what is the diffrence between air and True Air?? And I mean in SR terms.
Gabriel
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well, when you breathe TRUE air... you uh... can... uh... only tell the truth... and uh...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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True Air, Water, Wood, and Earth are powerful foci.
-kv
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This is MAGIC water... it was blessed by an escimo shaman...
ohh... it's still cold!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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True Air, Water, Wood, and Earth are powerful foci.
-kv
Well all I know is that using a true form of element or alchemical radical drops the TN for enchanting and is less karma intensive, but what ARE they?? How can you have True Air??? Air is made up of a mixture of gases. How can you have True Wood??? There are thousands of species of trees. See where I'm going with this???
Gabriel
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They appear as minerals, despite their airy nature. For example, true air is weightless but has form. In fact, using True Air as an element in a weapon makes it lighter than it was before. True Air can only be found in the upper atmosphere, near mountaintops as it grows inside of clouds. The Theran Empire of Earthdawn millieu used huge airships powered by blood magic to scour the clouds for true elements which they used in their wards before the Scourge occurred.
True Air appears as a silvery transparent crystalline metal. It is basically weightless, and will reduce the weight of an object that contains it and improves it's flight properties. Missile weapons will gain a greater range, et al.
True Earth a coppery half-metallic, half-earthen material. True Earth is not very heavy but is very tough, tougher than most modern alloys.
True Fire appears as a fiery golden crystalline metal. True Fire generates constant heat, and if made into foci, that heat can be channeled and controlled.
True Water is a mercurial semi-solid crystalline metal. True water will "sweat" small amounts of water, additionally, it will purify water that is is submerged in.
True Wood grows from trees that are fertilized and grown with true elements in the soil. The Joshua Tree Monument might be an example of True Wood.
Each True Element has special properties and are highly "aspected" toward their respective element. For example, making a Spirit Focus with True Earth will be naturally good regardless of the type used, but it will be much better when used to make a Focus to summon Spirits of the Land, Gnomes, and Earth Elementals. Additionally, weapon foci made with True Elements assume the basic primary and secondary elemental effects of their chosen element. As such, a True Fire sword will start things on fire, harm water spirits, and constantly generate steam when submerged in water.
As for during enchanting, treat the True Elements as radicals, double the bonuses available if the focus is aspected towards the element. True Wood is aspected towards Health Spells. Weapon Foci gain the the basic bonus but also receive the additional elemental effects.
I speculate that there are other True (elements) such as True Light, True Ice, and True Lightning, but these are just vague guesses.
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And where there is True Light, there must be True Darkness. . .
And I have had a theory concerning an extra element as well.
True Void.
An "Anti-True-Element" if you will. Found only in the deepest reaches of space, could be used to enhance or aspected towards Mana Warps, Rifts, and other "non-positive magics" Or maybe function as a negative dice to spells, and such?
Penny for your thoughts?
~~ Curris
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Hmm... I thought that the mana-warps and such were a result of a 'lack' of elements... what you are talking about would amount to a portable hole... I don't think they have a real spot for that outside of toon-town
-Ruski
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Fair enough. . .
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however, that being said; it would be possible to have a toxic 'true' element.
perhaps some radioactive trash from chernobil or something,
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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or from under Yucca Mt?
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*shrug* well; in a toxic waste dump filled with death and pain, if a true element were going to show up, what do you suppose it would look like?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Hmm, maybe kind of like the sewage in the old, original Dark Forces game? Kind of a brownish-green but with a slight glow?
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yup. it's all bout' nuclear waste in the sewer.
-Ruski
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Hmm, maybe kind of like the sewage in the old, original Dark Forces game? Kind of a brownish-green but with a slight glow?
Sounds like a nuclear bugar to me.
Gabriel
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and here i thought it might be a clear green minneral that pluse with inner light
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ooohhh... kryptonite!
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Add put my trademark "Topic People" mark on this thread too, if it wasn't because Uranium is an actual element.
Just don't deviate too much, eh.
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I thought we were discussing a true element of a toxic nature. Doesn't that fall under the heading of True Elements???
Gabriel
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I haven't seen much mentoned about true elements in SR4
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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There aren't any extra books out for SR4 yet are there??? You'll probably see something about it in the new version of Magic in the Shadows.
Gabriel
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The word is 'possibly' Gabe, it differs from 'probably' in several important ways.
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Hey now, I was giving FanPro the benefit of the doubt for once.
Gabriel
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I don't know, see, a Toxic True Element might not exist because Shadows of Asia mentions two corps battling over an area in the ocean where this new "radical" was found near an old Orichalcum deposit. One wants the radical and another wants oil resources (I believe) and so the theory is that the drilling of the oil would destroy the "nature" of the element.
However, one could speculate that if enough mana-lines were aspected towards a toxic nature, like the mana-line in Tsimshian, that toxic True elements might occur. However, I doubt many magicians would find a toxic True Element to be very useful.
[ED Alert]
Notably, a Horror in Earthdawn could Taint True elements and Orichalcum in order to sap karma from those whom bond to them (many of whom were blood-bonded via Life Magic artefacts) and also affect them with other Horror powers.
[/ED Alert]
Space still has "mana" in it, it simply has no charge. So Jester may have something with a hypothetical True Nothing. However, the scary part about this True Void, is that it smacks of the nature of the Enemy, to mindlessly consume anything with which it comes in contact. So a True Void and True Darkness would essentially be the same thing.
DnD had a magical item called a Sphere of Annihilation which would accurately mimick True Nothing.
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Moving the sphere of annilation wasn't possible in DnD though.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, remember, you had to use your mind to move it. It was some kind of intelligence check or something. I think you needed another item though.
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LOL certanly couldn't push it.
although I remeber interesting things happening if you threw a bag of holding in there...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Sorry about the Avatar, Retread, but I'm Curris.
And the Sphere is moveable. There is an intelligence check, (or a will save), and if you succeed you can move it 10 ft in whatever direction you want. If you want to move it again, it takes another check, and so forth. VERY SLOW TO MOVE.
If you failed, it moves towards you. Still slow, it can be outrun, unless it's blocking your only exits, as is common in dungeons that contain a Sphere. . .
An Amulet of Control Sphere of Annihilation will give you +20 on checks to control it, in 3.0 and 3.5 edition. In 2nd edition, you had full control, but it was still slow.
As for the Bags of holding. . .
Bag of Holding is put into Portable Hole. . . Rift opens to astral plane. Everything within 20ft is pulled into Astral and the rift closes. Bag and Hole Destroyed including all contents.
Portable Hole is put into a Bag of Holding. . . Bag and Hole Destroyed including all contents.
Portable Hole is put into a Sphere of Annihilation. . . Hole and contents destroyed.
Bag of Holding is put into a Sphere of Annihilation. . . Bag and contents destroyed.
Sigh. . . I don't even like 3.5 Dnd. . . . I just know too much about it.
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Hey Retread, you realize that toxic shamans and corrupted mages could make great use of a Toxic True Element. You would end up with foci aspected towards toxic magic, that's all. I could see the being a wonderfull plot tool for games with a strong magic feel.
Gabriel
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in my campaigns they tend to be tech heavy... so if there's an NPC mage with an aspected true element something or other, my entire party would die.
hell, I can't even put them up aghinst a bug spirit without them wiping themselves out.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Aye, that's probably true, but you have to consider that no one has found Toxic Orichalcum yet, which implies that other True Toxic Elements may not exist. However, I agree on the nifty plot device, it would probably be the equivalent of a Rating X Virtuoso piece that generates toxic background count and additionally generates a form of toxin or destroys plant life in it's radius. An example would be like in the movie Constantine, where that one Mexican carries the Spear of Destiny across the U.S border and all the animals and plants wither and die around it.
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yea, that was a cool effect.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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The background count isn't instantaneous, however, rather it's like a subtle taint, like a super-toxin. A unit of Corrupt Water (a working term) can slowly poison a river, killing everything in it much like normal poison, however, this effect is achieved not through a scientific manner, but magically. Eventually the growing pollution creates an inherent background count which is Toxic. Human exposure to Corrupt Elements, most especially magicians, causes them great duress and can drive magicians to a Toxic or Corrupt Path.
Back to True Elements, they can also be used as the actual material component of an elemental. A regular elemental cannot inhabit this type of element, but rather, they must be inhabited by very high-force Greater Form elementals, whom ALWAYS go free after their tasks are completed. A True Fire Elemental is a very scary thing indeed. A Corrupt True Fire Elemental is even scarier...
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Behold what little elemental knowledge i know!
Void in some elementalist views is considered the binding "element". when you look down on the atomic scale and what not you see that the space between atoms is actually a rather big distance between point AB and C, kinda like planetary distances. So much so that people are made of "nothing" and are held together by various energies that could be considered "void" energies. Same kinda energies that keep atoms from just kind of splitting and going all mushroom cloudy. The ability to manipulate void energy might allow a person to do the fabled "walk through walls" or other such feats that arent generally suppose to be possible or allowed by some of the laws of physics that general magic cant cover. And not saying its a good thing, its like any element, you mess with it when your not totally sure what your doing and dont fully understand the processes... well, im sure there are at least a few inept or poorly trained fire mages out there who can tell you "Fire burns!!!"
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Perhaps that would be the linking step between teleportation magicks in Shadowrun. Energy that binds between point A and point B, Wall-Walking, Etc. Although I could see teleportation getting so abused.
D20 Example.
Scry on bad guy, teleport in, avoiding traps, dungeons, minions, etc. kill bad guy, scry on new bad guy, process repeats. . .
plus it would elimnate the need for a rigger, and decrease the amount of stealth necessary in a run.
Plus this scenario: teleporting nukes into places, then astrally wiping your magic signature, untraceable-like.
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ah but it makes astral barriers all the more important
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I think Curris's just pointed out why teleportation 'still' isn't present in SR.
Breaks too many storylines.
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I had always assumed teleportation relied on a metaplanar shortcut, similar to the one used by free spirits when their true name is spoken three times.
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ok, i kind phrased that wrong.. i had just woke up and was on my way to do some yard work for my grand, and my grand doesnt want me to plant a few daisys, more like dig a hole in the back for a pond and then spread about 90 yards of gravel over the front yard and so forth.
I dont think teleportation would be possible with void magic... the phase through walls would be spreading your atomic bonds wider so you could pass through the other materials. or something like that.. another thing which could be seriously game damaging is causing the bonds to just stop. atoms arent attracted to each other and just dont "latch". Disintigration basicly. or for something really flashy, make all those atoms no longer attract, but repel each other... nasty little thought eh? perfect way to get rid of evidence.. nothing but a pile of dust behind that doesnt even resemble anything it once was.
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wouldnt even be dust just a pile of atomic particles
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Err... Ever used a deadly Power bolt rated at 20, before? Disintegration indeed.
Most combat spells are "unmaking" spells, which essentially destroy the target. At it's nastiest, it completely disintegrates the target.
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Here's a thought.
In some lines of thought, Fire is anti-Water
Earth is anti-air,
etc.
So combine every element you have, and you will (simaltaneously) have an anti-all element. Bam!
But that may also just give you a negated mass, with no qualities at all. . .
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By physical logic, fire doesn't exist as mass, and therefore would still leave water behind in the form of steam.
True Elements however, do not abide by negation logic and when equal parts of a true element come together they do not negate. In fact, all 4 true elements (earth, fire, water, and air) combined actually form Orichalcum. One might posit that this orichalcum is the same as the orichalcum found naturally during the Year of the Comet. Interestingly enough, radical mercury, copper, gold, and silver also form Orichalcum. Interesting, no?