Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => SR4 (Shadowrun 4th Edition) General Discussion => Topic started by: bull30548 on April 13, 2006, 01:55:08 AM
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Ok in a SR4 game I was playing a hermetic mage magic rating 5 initiate lvl. 1 with centering my metamagic feat. This is just background info the real kicker is this. I tore apart a Nightsky by myself with two spellcasts. They were the same spell though Powerbolt. Anyway my shirt was targeting the backdoor of the limo. I got 4 successes which added to my damage making it 9 (Force five was the highest I could do). The car had a structure of 6 so I surpassed that by three meaning I did 9 damage to the car structure. Thus ripping off the back end of the limo. I threw the second at the front door of the car. This time I got 5 successe thus surpassing the structure of the car. Again I rip the car apat this time the front part. This is how the GM expalined the scene. (I did no damge to the occupants since it was a specific target.)
Does this seem just a bit overboard for magic?
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I thought that additional successes made the target number to resist go up, not damage levels. . . otherwise resisting drain of damage Deadly + + + would be fatal, to say the least.
Also, I thought that it was (Number of successes) / 2 = modifier, not number of successes. . .
But it's been a while, and I have only read four pages of 4th Edition. . .
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So far I've steered clear of 4th Edition SR, but that sounds REALLY wrong to me. I don't think a Rating 5 Spell of any sort could do that much damage to a high-tech target like a limo. I could be wrong (like I said I am steering cler of SR4), but you may very well want to review that scenario and find out if you may have forgotten something.
Gabriel
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Inanimate objects DO NOT make resistance tests and individual parts may not be targeted with a combat spell. Elemental manipulations however can.
Let's break it down according to 3rd edition rules:
A mitsubishi nightsky has a body of 4 and armor of 2 (stock) The body is added to half the armor for a 5 added to the object resistance rating of the vehicle. So the target number to hit the nightsky (the entire thing) with a powerbolt would be 13. The extra eight is a result of the vehicle being made of advanced plastics or metal alloys. Also, the force of the spell must exceed the armor rating of the vehicle to have an effect. In 3rd edition, it's much better just to shoot out the tires or windows and then cast a spell against the driver or simply blast the road with a powerball instead.
If Object resistance ratings are not appicable in 4th edition, then magic is indeed very powerful. I suspect however, that you are missing something, perhaps the damage at the end is reduced by the vehicle's structure, therefore you only did 3 damage instead of 9? Perhaps the force must exceed the structure? I do not know, but that's is indeed very different from 3rd edition.
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First spell did nothing, second spell did no damage as well.
Rules (in the order I looked them up):
SR4 pg 174:
A spell cast on a non-living, non-magic target is not resisted,as the object has no life force and thus no connection to mana with which to oppose the casting of the spell (note that only Physical spells will affect non-living objects; mana spells have no effect). Highly processed and artificial items are more difficult to affect than natural, organic objects. Spells cast on non-living objects require a Success Test with a threshold based on the type of object affected (see the Object Resistance Table,). Note that objects targeted by Indirect Combat spells do get to resist the damage as they would any anged attack, use only their Armor rating x 2 (or just Armor against spells with elemental effects) to resist the damage caused (see Barriers, p. 157).
SR4 pg 175:
OBJECT RESISTANCE TABLE
Natural Objects
(Trees, Soil, Unprocessed Water) 1
Manufactured Low-Tech Objects and Materials
(Brick, Leather, Simple Plastics) 2
Manufactured High-Tech Objects and Materials
(Advanced Plastics, Alloys, Electronic Equipment) 3
Highly Processed Objects
(Computers, Complex Toxic Wastes, Drones, Vehicles) 4+
SR4 pg 56
Thresholds
Hits represent a measure of achievement on a test. In order to succeed completely on a Success Test, you must meet or exceed a gamemaster-determined threshold with your hits. The higher the threshold, the more difficult an action is. The standard threshold is 1 (so only 1 hit is necessary to succeed), though other tests may have a threshold as high as 4. The Difficulty Table lists a range of difficulty levels along with a standard threshold for each. In some cases, a threshold modifier may apply to an action, raising or lowering the threshold by the stated amount. The more net hits a character scores (the more hits exceed the threshold), the more the task was pulled off with finesse and flair. So a character who rolls 4 hits on a threshold 2 test has scored 2 net hits. The gamemaster does not have to (and should not) tell the player what the threshold for any test is before she rolls, unless the character has good reason to know exactly how difficult the action will be. If the threshold is larger than the character’s dice pool, then there is simply no way the character can succeed unless she spends Edge (see p. 67).
SR4 pg 161
VEHICLE DAMAGE
Whenever a vehicle is hit by an attack, it resists damage as normal, rolling Body + Armor. If the attack’s modified DV does not exceed the vehicle’s modified Armor, no damage is applied. Note that since many vehicles will have large Body dice pools, gamemasters are encouraged to use the trade-in-dice-for-hits rule (4 dice = 1 hit) to simplify tests. Your average tank, for example, will automatically get 4 hits on a Body Test by trade in, so there is no point in rolling unless the hits needed are higher than 4.)
SR4 pg 342
Mitsubishi Nightsky
Body: 12
Armor: 10
Due process:
You cast a powerbolt spell at Force 5 and get 4 successes. The threshold to affect the vehicle is 4, making a successful spellcast but no net hits. The spell does 5 damage. Note that inanimate objects do not get to resist the spell, but they do get to resist the damage. Using the Vehicle Damage rules on pg 161, you can buy 1 success for every 4 dice you get to roll. The Nightsky has a damage resistance pool of 22 dice (body 12, armor 10). Divide 22 by 4 and you get 5.5, or 6 automatic successes. With 6 automatic successes, 5 damage is reduced to 0.
The second power bolt is cast at Force 5 with 5 successes. Minus the threshold of 4, you get 1 net hit making the damage 6. Again, the Nightsky gets 6 automatic successes reducing the damage to 0.
"But this is MAGIC!" you claim. Simple, Powerbolt is a physical spell, thus affects the vehicle physically. And physically the vehicle has a lot of armor and a very high body rating.
Any questions? ;)
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That's a sort of roundabout way of doing it. Does the whole vehicle need to be targeted in 4th edition too? Because it seems like a door would have a lower body rating.
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Stats I gave are for the whole car. It's really GM speculation though, I'd say the door would have the same armor rating but a lower body rating.
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An ironic thing about this is with the way that part of the system I will just sit strapped in a Nightsky. Lowfyr could never hit me or get to me on a physical level since he could never net more successes to damage the vehicle. Now if you treat said vehicle as a barrier which is what it was designed to do was block. Then you would apply the structure rating system for applying damage.
Also based on your math which on that same page is an example of how many succeses a tank automatically gets is 4. So a nightsky is tougher than a tank now? Boy why is the military even using those slow tanks anymore? Think there is an error somewhere. Because see my point could be valid as well as yours. It is dependant on how you want to apply things and all that. Oh and by the way take a look at barrier ratings for physical and mana walls. Unless you over cast the bastard to the maxiimum your barrier is going to last maybe a combat round if you are lucky. Cause a barrier rating of six versus a predator 4 or anything with a burst or full auto capabilities. Pop bye bye barrier hello bullet to mage. Such a nice barrier it was too.
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That's a sort of roundabout way of doing it. Does the whole vehicle need to be targeted in 4th edition too? Because it seems like a door would have a lower body rating.
IIRC, in 3rd edition, he power bolt spell cannot target the door seperately from the vehicle.
So no dice.
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Heh, these rules were supposed to be simpler, right?
I also doubt Lofwyr would bother, he'd just have a spirit manifest inside the limo and burn everyone alive.
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Realistically, Lofwyr could just snap his fingers and blow up the Nightsky (remember the rules for characters without stats?) ;)
The example about the tank says it would automatically get 4 successes in a Body test, so that means it has at least a Body rating of 16. It doesn't talk about armor rating. I had to read that passage a couple of times before I got it ;) The Ares Citymaster, a riot control vehicle, has a Body of 16 and an Armor rating of 20 (which gives you a total damage resistance pool of 36, or 9 automatic successes).
Also don't forget that a magician can overcast, which is to cast a spell at a higher force rating than their magic rating. The Drain becomes physical though. So in theory your character could have casted the powerbolt spell at Force 10. Taken that into consideration, your first cast against the Nightsky would have done 4 points of damage, and the second would have done 5 points of damage (leaving the limo severly damaged).
Your character as a level 1 initiate has a maximum magic rating of 7 (though it is currently at 5). If you were to increase your magic rating to 7 the maximum force you could cast spells at would be 14, which could blow up a whole lot of things ;)
You know, the more I work with SR4 rules the more I'm getting to like them ;D
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Err... So you don't have to spend x karma to learn said force 14 spell?
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No, you spend X karma to learn spell, and are able to cast it at any force rating you want to up to twice your magic rating. When you cast a spell at a force higher than your magic rating you are considered 'overcasting' and any drain is physical damage.
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That's new.
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Have you got a book or page number for that? Or a more generic source?
What if a spell has physical drain to begin with?
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SR4 pg 85
Spells
Magicians can only cast spells that
they have learned. During character creation,
players can spend Build Points to
have their magician character learn spells
before beginning the game. Learning a
spell costs 3 BP. (Players from previous
editions should note that you don’t have
to learn the spell at a certain Force.) The
maximum number of spells your character
can learn during character creation is
equal to twice the highest rating of your
Spellcasting or Ritual Spellcasting skills.
SR4 pg 171-172
Force
A spell’s only attribute is its Force—the measure of the
spell’s raw power. A spell’s Force helps determine its effectiveness
and its Drain. The Force of a spell is chosen by the caster
during spellcasting, typically at a value up to the Magic attribute
of the magician who cast it. The maximum Force that a
spell can be cast at is equal to twice the character’s Magic.
...
A spell’s Force limits the number of hits (not net hits)
that can be achieved on the Spellcasting Test. So if you cast
a Force 3 spell and get 5 hits, only 3 of those hits count.
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Overcasting: Magicians may cast spells at a Force higher
than their Magic ratings (known as overcasting), but this causes
the spell Drain to be Physical damage rather than Stun.
SR4 pg 167
Drain
...
Drain is usually Stun damage,
though there are situations in which it can be
transformed into Physical damage.
SR4 pg 174
(Sorcery section)
Step 6: Resist Drain
Magicians roll
Willpower + an attribute
appropriate to their tradition
(Charisma for shamans
and Logic for mages)
to resist Drain. Each hit on
the Drain Resistance Test
reduces the Drain Value
of the spell by one. Note
that wound modifiers or
sustained spells have no effect
on the character’s dice
pool for Drain Resistance
Tests. Drain damage for
spells is Stun damage unless overcasting.
Note the last line in the last quote, "Drain damage is Stun damage unless overcasting." Also I don't recall there ever being a situation where drain is automatically physical damage. Even the healing spells in SR3, whose drain was equal to the number of damage boxes on the hurt person, was Stun.
Hope that helps!
;D
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Very helpful, thank you.
I thought that there was a spell or situation that had physical drain, but I'm at school now. I will look for it tonight. Of course, I may have just imagined it, too, so no worries.
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Uh oh, who was it that was telling me that spells with immediate physical drain border on Blood Magic?
I suspect that all magic in SR4 is stun unless you go over your Magic rating in Force whereby it becomes physical and all the drain is calculated in points (since target numbers don't exist) and penalties reduce your dice. However, the X karma thing bothers me, since a formula is a formula and the complexity is based on the force learned and drain is relative to the breadth of the change inflicted.
I mean, what's the difference in drain between a Powerbolt and a Powerball spell?
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Learning a spell (after chargen) costs 5 Karma per spell.
Powerbolt drain: (F/2)+1
Powerball drain: (F/2)+3
So it's 2 points ;)
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Heh, so what's the drain on a touch range Ork only stun spell?
That's a joke, but I bet it's something like: (Force/2)-3
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It's called a "punch" ;D
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No against the ork man not your hand. lol
Listen my gamemaster came up with a few house rules and other things to help compensate for what appears to be an imbalance. But he can't anticipate everything that can happen in a game. here another imbalance for you guys they took away the whole focus rules almost. the only rule that seemed to stay is you can't have more bound focuses than your charisma rating. But think about it you become almost unstoppable with like three or four of those focuses. Lets see armor, improved invisiblity, improved reflexes, and improved ability reaction. With all those it hard to hit you, hard to damage you and to top it all off you can still throw out another sustaining spell to ward off other things. The only counter to magic we have found is magic really.
Oh by the way there are some otherthings that have changed instead of being able toallocate spell defense you have to take a skill counter spelling to do it now. Thus more karma being spent.
Oh where oh where is Sr4 Magic Companion to help rectify these things. lol
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Focus addiction-- From SR3-- Whereby you can only have a number of active Foci equal to twice your magic rating in Force. Else, you must check for magic loss every Combat Turn or thereabouts. It's quite nasty.
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Heh, so what's the drain on a touch range Ork only stun spell?
That's a joke, but I bet it's something like: (Force/2)-3
Touch stun spell is called 'Knockout' and drain is just like you guessed. If there were spell creation rules, you could probably create an ork-only version of that spell with the drain being F/2-4 or -5 probably.
No against the ork man not your hand. lol
Listen my gamemaster came up with a few house rules and other things to help compensate for what appears to be an imbalance. But he can't anticipate everything that can happen in a game. here another imbalance for you guys they took away the whole focus rules almost. the only rule that seemed to stay is you can't have more bound focuses than your charisma rating. But think about it you become almost unstoppable with like three or four of those focuses. Lets see armor, improved invisiblity, improved reflexes, and improved ability reaction. With all those it hard to hit you, hard to damage you and to top it all off you can still throw out another sustaining spell to ward off other things. The only counter to magic we have found is magic really.
Oh by the way there are some otherthings that have changed instead of being able toallocate spell defense you have to take a skill counter spelling to do it now. Thus more karma being spent.
Oh where oh where is Sr4 Magic Companion to help rectify these things. lol
The point of magic is that it's supposed to be powerful, albeit very rare. IIRC, the total percentage of the population that is magically active (those who can cast spells, those who can summon, adepts, etc.) is 0.1% In a given group of 1,000,000 people, there are 1,000 magically active people. I don't post any limitations on our group, we have 1 hermetic and 1 mystic adept. At the same time I can always throw an enemy mage into the mix to cause them problems. Also, while your group's mage 'buffs' up with sustained spells into foci, an astrally projecting mage (or even a spirit) can come along and dispel the sustained spells.
In regards to your scenario, the GM can regulate the world as he/she sees fit. If your GM wants to run a low-magic game, perhaps your group can discuss limitations as far as magic is concerned? Maybe only allow 1 magic user for the entire group?
In any case Improved Invisibility is a physical illusion spell, which is resisted by Intuition. The spell doesn't automatically work, each person who looks at the invisible person gets a chance to resist the spell with Intuition + Counterspelling. Though if they don't get more hits than the person who casted the spell they are fully affected by the illusion. Counterspelling is actually a very useful skill, I suggest your GM look into it (SR4 p. 175). Also realize that invisibility only affects vision, people can still detect an invisible person through the other senses. A sensor device with olfactory (smell) senses, or sound senses can detect an invisible person. Also, if the mage in question touches any sensitive device or steps on a pressure plate they would become detected (but still invisible). While spells are functioning on a person that person would glow brightly on the astral plane, so any astral nasties floating around could become curious also.
Just a bunch of ideas, hope they're helpful.
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Heh, so the basic premise here is that:
+1 Drain = +1 drain Target #
+2 Drain = +1 Drain Damage Level
If you compare the two systems. Which does make more sense with regards to balance.
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The magic system is kinda interesting now since it the system uses damage points rather than damage levels.
Spellcasting example:
A mage vs. a thug.
A mage has magic rating 5, spellcasting skill at 5, and the manabolt spell. He casts the spell using his Magic + Spellcasting (10 dice) and gets 4 hits let's say (remember all TN#'s are 5 now, so each 5+ is called a 'hit')
So the thug gets hit by the spell with 3 net hits. He can try to resist the spell itself using Willpower (since it's a mana spell) + Counterspelling (if a magician on his side was allocating it). If he rolls his Willpower and gets at least 4 hits, the spell is resisted and does no damage. Let's assume he doesn't make the roll.
So the spell was cast at Force 5 and succeeded with 3 net hits. It does 8 points of damage, resisted by Willpower. Characters have a physical damage monitor of 8 + (1/2 Body) rounding up (so the average person can take 10 points of physical damage).
The mage then resists drain. Drain for Manabolt is (F/2). Cast at Force 5, the drain is 3 points of stun damage. The mage rolls Logic + Willpower (plus any other drain bonuses) to resist drain.
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I disagree with the "Counterspelling" skill as it is just Sorcery in reverse. It shouldn't have its own skill.
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Yeah, it reminds me of the Shielding Initiate ability in SR3 kinda.
Personally I don't have a problem with Counterspelling as a skill. You could easily look at someone with a Spellcasting skill of 2 and a Counterspelling skill of 5 as someone who focused more stopping spells rather than casting them. And the other way around there could be someone who focused all their training on throwing spells out but never spent any time on figuring out how to protect themselves.
A magician using Counterspelling in SR4 is described as someone who is 'actively "jamming" the mana around him.' It's a pool of dice that can be used to protect the magician and anyone he/she sees fit in his/her line of sight. It can defend against direct as well as indirect (illusion/detection type) spells.
Also, there are Skill Groups, which is a bunch of related skills grouped together that a character can purchase at a higher cost. There's a Sorcery skill group that includes the skills Counterspelling, Ritual Spellcasting, and Spellcasting. Since characters in SR4 are built on a build-point system rather than the priority system of SR3 there's a lot more points to go around.
Purchasing skills at chargen is 4 BP per skill point, while purchasing a skill group is 10 BP per skill point. So buying Counterspelling, Ritual Spellcasting, and Spellcasting all at rating 5 would cost you 60 BP while the Sorcery skill group at rating 5 would give you all 3 skills at rating 5 for only 50 BP. One downfall of skill groups though is it doesn't allow you to specialize any of the skills in the group.
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Erm, if I recall, Spell Defense was a specialization of the Sorcery skill, along with Dispelling:
Sorcery (Dispelling, Spell Defense, and Spell Casting)
Conjuring (Banishing, Summoning, Controlling)
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The max rank in skill groups is 4. You can only have one skill starting at 6, or two at 5 and the rest can be no higher than 4 at character creation.
And Sorcery Skill Group is: Counterspelling, Ritual Spellcasting, and Spellcasting.
And you are not allowed to Specialize a skill that is a part of a skill group.
So if you want to start a character with Rank 4 Spellcasting and then specialize in Combat Spells. It will cost you a pretty 26 BP.
And then if you bought the other two skills at rank 4 that would be 32 BP for a total of 58 BP for 3 rank 4's skills with one specialization VS. 40 BP for a rank 4 Skill Group.
Final analysis.......... Skill Groups are the shiznit.
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As for the initial topic. I'd like to add that there's no damage resistance test against direct combat spells, such as Powerball. Exceeding the Object Resistance Spell is the only thing that matter, with exceeding hits scoring additional damage.
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This is an old thread, had to reread the whole thing to figure out what was going on! :o
Erm, if I recall, Spell Defense was a specialization of the Sorcery skill, along with Dispelling:
Sorcery (Dispelling, Spell Defense, and Spell Casting)
Conjuring (Banishing, Summoning, Controlling)
Sorcery is a skill in SR3, Spell Casting is a skill in SR4. In SR4 (which this thread is about) you can specialize spellcasting into spell type (combat, detection, etc.)
As for the initial topic. I'd like to add that there's no damage resistance test against direct combat spells, such as Powerball. Exceeding the Object Resistance Spell is the only thing that matter, with exceeding hits scoring additional damage.
I had to look this one up, it's been a couple of years since I've played SR. ;)
Please note this excerpt from SR4 (SR4 20th, pg 183), specifically the bold part:
A spell cast on a non-living, non-magic target is not resisted, as
the object has no life force and thus no connection to mana with
which to oppose the casting of the spell (note that only Physical spells
will affect non-living objects; mana spells have no effect). Highly processed
and artificial items are more difficult to affect than natural, organic
objects. Spells cast on non-living objects require a Success Test
with a threshold based on the type of object affected (see the Object
Resistance Table). Note that objects targeted by Combat spells get to
resist the damage as they would any ranged attack; use their Armor
rating x 2 (or just Armor against spells with elemental effects) to resist
the damage (Barriers, p. 166).
Also the object resistance table (same page SR4 20th):
category (threshold)
Natural Objects (1)
(Trees, Soil, Unprocessed Water)
Manufactured Low-Tech Objects and Materials (2)
(Brick, Leather, Simple Plastics)
Manufactured High-Tech Objects and Materials (4)
(Advanced Plastics, Alloys, Electronic Equipment)
Highly Processed Objects (6+)
(Computers, Complex Toxic Wastes, Drones, Vehicles)
I realize now that my initial assessment of the powerbolt vs. nightsky situation was not completely correct (at least looking at the 20th anniversary edition of SR4 now). The object resistance table lists vehicles as 6+ (previously was 4), meaning at least 6 net hits to succeed. Then the vehicle resists with Armor x2, in this case a 20 dice pool. Automatic successes is pool/4, so automatic 5 successes. Force 5 power bolt vs. the nightsky with 6 hits on spellcasting test nets no damage. 7 hits on spellcasting test would do 6 damage, minus 5 automatic successes from the vehicle would net 1 damage to the limo.
....I want to play again! :D
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Hey Ingo I may have found another unbalancing factor with magic. I was looking over the new magical society webbook they released and saw something that made me laugh. It made me laugh because it was just another possible unbalancing magic but also made more sense. It had a Mystic Adept with a magic score of 14 with 6 in magic and 8 in adept powers. Now it looks like he increased his magic rating by karma alone and the rest by initiation. However, due to the split that Mystic Adepts usually take they are able to get their magic ratings higher than a regular mage. Mages are difficult on their own at the beginning of a game but come into there own with a little karma. Mystic Adepts have a bigger handicap but they can bust out wider and bigger than them.
Edit: So I checked it out with Chummer and it doesn't recognize that yet.
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Wait, how did you get a character with a Magic rating of 14? Assuming you started with 6, that's 8 grades of initiation plus 8 additional rating to the magic attribute.
Initiation cost is 10 + (Grade x 3) in Karma. (SR4A pg 198)
Improving an attribute is new rating x 5 in Karma. (SR4A pg 270)
So starting at Magic 6, that's 8 initiate grades.
Grade 1 = 13 Karma (Max Magic Rating is 7)
Grade 2 = 16 Karma (Max Magic Rating is 8 )
Grade 3 = 19 Karma (Max Magic Rating is 9)
Grade 4 = 22 Karma (Max Magic Rating is 10)
Grade 5 = 25 Karma (Max Magic Rating is 11)
Grade 6 = 28 Karma (Max Magic Rating is 12)
Grade 7 = 31 Karma (Max Magic Rating is 13)
Grade 8 = 34 Karma (Max Magic Rating is 14)
Total Karma spent on initiation = 188
And since you don't get those attribute points for free, you need to spend Karma to increase your magic rating (and thus get those precious adept power points)
Magic Rating 7 = 35
Magic Rating 8 = 40
Magic Rating 9 = 45
Magic Rating 10 = 50
Magic Rating 11 = 55
Magic Rating 12 = 60
Magic Rating 13 = 65
Magic Rating 14 = 70
Total Karma spent on attributes: 420.
Total Karma cost for a mystic adept with 8 grades of initiation and total magic rating 14 (but effective magic rating 6 for spells): 608
That's an "Epic Level" character if I ever saw one, hahaha! Most runners "retire" around 100 Karma, at least that's what I read somewhere.
I recall playing "Epic Level" D&D 3.0 once, I was level total level 21 with all the classes/prestige classes etc. A dragon came at us and with my insane initiative I went first, and I killed the dragon in my first set of attacks. No one else in my group, not even the dragon, got an action before it died. After that it wasn't fun anymore ;)
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As I said it was in the Magical Society web book that was released recently. It a Prime Runner honestly and an uber one at that I agree. There is also the write up for Harlequin and he is just scary powerful.
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What the...? Harlequin isn't supposed to have stats. He's supposed to be one of those enigmas of the SR game universe, no one knows how old he is or how powerful he is, or what his scheme is when he's working with players.
I'm going to have to look at this web book, and afterwards probably strike it from my memory haha.
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Yeah, they gave ol Harley stats in one of the newer books, although Frosty says this is post-ritual (those in the know will know what I mean), and that Harlequin was severely weakened by that, so he might be this powerful, or much more powerful, depending on how much he's recovered by the time you go up against him.
Still, a lot of people were unhappy with Harlequin getting stats.
-kv
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Actually the way I had it explained to me Harley always had stats you just had to know where to look in the Fasa system. Also they were never given in one book but in several in bits and pieces. My friend referred to it as the quin question. I don't know if that was true or not but he openly admitted to being Fasa's b****. Also KV right this is post not past I believe it listed in the Artifacts Unbound book. However one of the story threads is the fact that apparently he is trying to regain his former power. They also brought back Bull for the history lesson on Harley. Which well makes me chuckle cause I didn't even know about him because most of this was after me.
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I know this is an old topic, but two things amuse me about it. 1; A person or object can only get auto successes in a non stressful situation and 2; Damage values are rolled like any other dice pool. So a Force 14 spell as it's DV is 14 dice rolled. Magic is not as broken as some people think.
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First of all, hello and welcome to the Pub!
...A person or object can only get auto successes in a non stressful situation and ...
Yes and no, it's actually GM discretion whether or not to allow it:
Gamemasters should only allow this when the character has an exceptionally large dice pool (and is unlikely to fail) or when the situation is non-threatening and nonstressful.
As you said, non-stressful situations... but also situations where someone would need to roll an excessive number of dice. Really, whenever the GM allows, so it could be all of the time, only in non-stressful situations, or even none of the time ;)
...Damage values are rolled like any other dice pool. So a Force 14 spell as it's DV is 14 dice rolled. ..
You don't actually roll DV for attacks.
In physical combat there's an opposed test to determine if the attack hits (i.e. pistols + agility vs reaction). The net hits are added to the base DV of the attack, which is now called the modified DV. If the attack has an AP rating or the defender's armor has special abilities vs that attack the armor value is modified. At this point the defender rolls a normal success test of their attribute + modified armor, net hits reduce the modified DV and takes any DV left over as damage. The attacker does not roll their DV or modified DV again before the defender resists.
In magical combat (for direct spells) there is an opposed test to see if the spell affects the target. The attacker rolls skill + magic and the defender rolls resistance. The difference here (which incidentally I just found out) is that net hits only increase the damage if the casting magician also increases drain by the same net hits. For example 2 net hits on an opposed test of a force 5 spell would be DV 7 only if the spellcaster would also increase the drain value by +2. The defender does not get another roll to resist the damage like they do with physical attacks, their only chance is the initial roll to resist the spell itself.
-Ingo