Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => SR3 (Shadowrun 3rd Edition) General Discussion => Topic started by: Ingo Monk on May 14, 2006, 11:31:40 AM
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http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3story.html?sid=6150590&pid=933049
.... bleh :(
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All across the forums, the reaction has been pretty hostile.
I'm actually cautiously optimistic, because if they do this game, and it does well at all, Microsoft is going to put more money into Shadowrun games, which means more, better Shadowrun games.
-kv
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Then perhaps it would be a good thing for tis game to come out.
Gabriel
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In other words: Buy it to encourage better games?
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You know, I just had a thought about how you could do a Shadowrun MMORPG. The biggest problem with converting this kind of game into a massive RPG is that Shadowrun tends to take place behind the scenes. You do the job you're hired to do, and try to make sure NO ONE finds out. Unfortuantly, this kind of genre doesn't really lend itself to large parties, quests, and the like.
But how about setting up a game where you could be either a runner OR a corporate/military asset like a security rigger, or wage mage, or corporate samurai? You could have your PC playing as the "bad guy" against other runners. Watcha think??
Gabriel
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That could be interesting. Or how 'bout working for LoneStar or on border patrol or something?
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Yeah, the people heckling at the forums there seem to be pretty agreed that they want a MMORPG and nothing else. Which strikes me as odd, seeing as how MMORPGs tend to lend themselves to goldfarming and a lot of other unsavory habits.
Plus, a game has to be a proven franchise before a company will sink in the millions necessary to build the servers and do the programming and testing necessary for an MMO game.
See: D&D Online. After something in the realm of 40 years of abuse in the computer world, D&D finally got an MMO. An MMO that is fun and actually makes me want to play D&D more often (I'm currently down to once, maybe twice a month).
I'm not sure how a Shadowrun game would need to be structured to keep everyone happy, but it seems to me that in order to bring in the greatest number of fans, you'd need a popular gametype (such as an FPS) to appeal to people who knew (Or know) nothing about Shadowrun. I'm afraid that if they did make a Shadowrun MMO, it would turn out like Star Wars Galaxies, and suck so much ass that people who used to like star wars would stop playing it.
Anyway, I'm just stuck at school until my next class starts...
-kv
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Well if you look at history here, wasn't the Sega Shadowrun game an FPS?? I know the Super NES was a quest game. So I guess it makes sense to have an FPS for a MMO-scale audiance. And who knows, they may toss in some really wiz music and background story/effects/fluff and have a winner.
Gabriel
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The Sega one was closer to the real game mechanics and it was a top-down action-rpg. It used the real corps from the game and the real matrix rules from 1st edition. You even get to meet the Laughing Man.
The saddest part (I'm guessing) about this game is that it was probably designed by someone who never even played Shadowrun so they've probably thrown the mechanics right out the fraggin' window.
If they were gonna go with this, they should have done it Deus Ex style with weapon skills that affect the "jitter" of your weapon and how quickly the targeting reticle will lock will squeeze when you stand still. The essence thing should be representative of your magic skill and your ability to be healed.
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I prefer overview, I hate FPS games so am unlikeyl to try/endorse any of that ilk.
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I don't see how you'd do an MMORPG with Shadowrun, it just wouldn't er... fit. The only way it'd really work is if most of the game was instanced with NPC databases or you made it so the game took place in Seattle (another thing being that the real city of Seattle would have a great deal to say about a massive game defaming their city) and limited movement outside of it.
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I'm thinking this is just not feasible (sp). Oh well, back to WoW, Jester. ;)
Gabriel
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Honestly, I can't think of anything more horrifying (a first person shooter Shadowrun game included) than a bunch of runners 'goldfarming.'
"Mr. Johnson on 6th gives PH47 13W7!"
Nothing could possibly kill my enthusiasm for an MMO Shadowrun game than the reality of what it would become. It seems so perfect in my head, but I know that's not how things would turn out.
I actually like the direction they're taking this- they're introducing new players to the story, so rather than dumping them in 2070, and saying "Well, you should have bought the last 20 years worth of sourcebooks!" they're giving new players a chance to feel like part of the world.
I mean, I would love to play a game, even a squad-based First Person Shooter, where you got to be part of the Nightwraith Incident. How cool would that be?
-KV
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Not as cool as being on the Ares team that detonates the tac-nuke inside the bug hive in Chicago.
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Or the one person who knows what REALLY happened during the Lone Eagle Incident. But yeah, being in Chitown when the nuke went off would be pretty damn cool, at least from a gaming stand point that is.
Gabriel
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hahahaha... that would be cool, although it might dissapoint gamers who got really into the game and then got to the ending of "Rocks fall and everybody dies!"
But you guys are getting the thread of what I'm saying. There are cool things that they could do with a squad based shooter.
Here's a trailer:
Shadowrun Game Trailer (http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=10504&type=mov&pl=game)
(This page is loading weird- you have to click the first link right below the video)
-kv
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Judging by that trailer, I'd say this game is about the second Locus.
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Second Locus?
Please, explain, Retread.
-kv
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The Locus is an ancient Earthdawn artifact that channels mana. A Locus was found in Aztlan and is what the Blood Mage, Darke, used in the mini-plot "Harlequin's Back" to attempt to summon "the Enemy" from the other side of reality. It is a very very powerful artifact from ages ago. The mana level is presumably too low, which is why the Azzies built Teocalli in a network to channel natural and sacrifice mana across the breadth of Aztlan to activate the Locus itself.
Presumably, this second Locus is the one that Amazonia (theoretically) has/wants to acquire. Specifically, to keep it out of the hands of the Azzies who would do nothing good with it.
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hahahaha... that would be cool, although it might dissapoint gamers who got really into the game and then got to the ending of "Rocks fall and everybody dies!"
But you guys are getting the thread of what I'm saying. There are cool things that they could do with a squad based shooter.
Here's a trailer:
Shadowrun Game Trailer (http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=10504&type=mov&pl=game)
(This page is loading weird- you have to click the first link right below the video)
-kv
That would be cool a good story line based in with a squad based shooter, Any one play the new ghost Recon game yet? This would have been a great shadow run game.... also if they were to put in stealth based shooter missions. Maybe at the end of one chapeter when your using one of the street sams in the group.. he sacrafices himeself to save the rest of the team... you play the whole mission and when you "finish" the level it cuts t a cust scean or somthign with some intence music... it shows the street Sams finishing off lots of people and he finally gets whacked but not before the gets the decker out with the important data, he has downloaded into his headwear storage device.
Thats the one thing that bothers me about this new game, its lacking single player game!
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Having just played a session of City of Heroes tonight, I can see that a Shadowrun game could work in that format. The major issue would be in trying to keep people from going beserk and being overt in their missions, which could be combatted somewhat by implementing a server-run Lone Star force that actually came after PCs who disturbed the peace (or carried obvious weaponry in public).
As for keeping the amount of money down, I'm sure a system of paying for lifestyle could be implemented to syphon extra funds from people so they value the money they earn.
My other preference for a game would be a FPS.
The main thing is that, unlike many of the other games around, the focus wouldn't be on combat - or at least not solely on combat. One of the major parts of SR is the legwork and talking to your contacts.
Either way, I reckon Retread's idea of being inside the Containment Zone would really kick hoop. Ferreting out hives, running for or against warlords... all in a justified contained area.
But yes, you'd have to be able to play it single-player too.
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That would be cool a good story line based in with a squad based shooter, Any one play the new ghost Recon game yet? This would have been a great shadow run game.... also if they were to put in stealth based shooter missions.
Yeah, I played it. It's a good game, but it seems pretty far removed from Shadowrun. They'd have to do a lot of work on the engine to adapt it, expecially considering that there aren't any real NPC interactions aside from, well, shooting.
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I believe a Shadowrun game should be a turn-based strategy game that goes in and out of real-time like Jagged Alliance or Fallout Tactics.
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I believe a Shadowrun game should be a turn-based strategy game that goes in and out of real-time like Jagged Alliance or Fallout Tactics.
Just out of curiosity, why do you see this as being important?
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How do you mean?
Shadowrun is not a "real-time" game. There are stops and initiative. For example, in a first person shooter, wired reflexes are impossible to emulate. In a turn-based strategy game, the turns would begin and initiative would be rolled as per normal. The higher initiative gets more actions, etc.
A first person shooter is clunky for genuine Shadowrun game mechanics and really doesn't follow the role-playing genre.
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Last I heard, they were planning for early 2040s, late 2030s.
So they're planning before the major advents of the matrix, before level three of any type of cyberwear was available, much less the more advanced systems that began to surpass wired reflexes as time progressed.
In any case, they have some interesting stuff planned- I'm curious how it'll all turn out.
-kv
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How do you mean?
Shadowrun is not a "real-time" game. There are stops and initiative. For example, in a first person shooter, wired reflexes are impossible to emulate. In a turn-based strategy game, the turns would begin and initiative would be rolled as per normal. The higher initiative gets more actions, etc.
A first person shooter is clunky for genuine Shadowrun game mechanics and really doesn't follow the role-playing genre.
Yes, a first-person shooter is limited in that fashion - particularly if it has any sort of multiplayer functionality. However, Max Payne was able to implement a 'bullet time' feature that worked well in single-player. Presumably something similar could be implemented to simulate the faster reflexes of those with enhancements... but this might get tedious for a whole game, so the user might need an option to switch them on and off.
Alternatively, actions implemented by an enhanced character could be done at twice or three-times the speed.
I guess it depends on personal preference. A turn-based game would work well, but it would restrict the choice of interface. I personally find it harder to immerse myself in a game if it breaks from real-time, but that;s just me.
Anyway, I agree that some POV are less suited to aspects of Shadowrun, and I suppose the designers would need to make a call on what they saw as the most important.
Thanks for answering my question :)
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Well, you tell me. How well can you get into a PnP game where it takes people 20 minutes of real-time to dole out 9 seconds of combat?
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Touché.
I could say that a PnP game has other elements, such as getting together with other players, that aren't normally present in turn-based computer games - but I'm not sure that would be one of the main reasons we play SR.
As far as the timing goes... I haven't played many games that make a point of exactly how long it takes to perform actions. The passage of in-game time is usually indicative and approximate anyway.
Certainly the PnP game works well as turn-based.
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I can see why turn-based strategy is abandoned for real-time strategy but a role-playing environment scrapped for an FPS just boggles my mind.
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Well, I'm not sure exactly what they were thinking, but to listen to the people whine on the message boards over there, they almost expect a perfect RPG translation of Shadowrun to the world of MMORPGs or nothing else.
Seriously, they're pretty bitter against anything that isn't exactly what they already wanted. But hey- these are Shadowrun fans. (drove two companies out of business and counting!)
-kv
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Which two are those?
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uhhh... by my count, FASA and FASA Interactive.
-kv
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I dunno. I liked the Shadowrun on the Sega Genesis. The one on the SNES wasn't so hot though. It really flew off the handle on the game mechanics.
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from the screenshots Ive seen it doesnt look too shadowrunnish
or is just me? And the faction thing.
I didnt realize it was gonna be on the PC too, I thought it was just on the crackbox.
From what I understood FASAinteractive didnt really fail so much as get swallowed by Micro$oft. Which is what they do, find someone doing something they think they can make money off and they buy them and tear them apart and keep what they want. Happened to my BIL's company here in Texas, they were doing something Micro$oft wanted, they bought them out, took the info and things they needed and dissolved the company.
I cant say much about the magic part, but the megacorps are rising chummers.