Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => SR3 (Shadowrun 3rd Edition) General Discussion => Topic started by: Elena V on June 19, 2006, 12:19:34 PM
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Okay. I don't own any of the books or companions, and don't have access to Kid Vid's computer at the moment, sooo...
How does bounty hunting work? :D
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Well, since the world of Shadowrun is pretty much a modified version of real life (and that's why I love it) you could treat an SR bounty hunter just like a real life bounty hunter, i.e. your job is to track down individuals who have been arrested and released on bale, who then "skipped town" without showing up at their trial. I know that might sound a bit fraggin' boring, but think about it like this, in the world of Shadowrun, there are a TON of borders in the world that a person might cross to evade the law. Imagine you have a few Mitsuhama sararimen (wage slaves) go out on the town in the middle of teh Seatle Sprawl. After an evening of drinking and partying, they end up in Auburn and hire a few caucasian hookers for a bit of color and things go south. One of the hookers ends up dead, the sarariman gets arrested, and by some freaky legal loophole, he makes bail. The guy then goes into ANY Mitsuhama building, and is now in Corporate territory. If Mitsuhama has no extradition treaty with the UCAS, then Joe Corporate is on easy street.
So you could work a boutny hunter like that: a guy who has a quasi-legal status which allows him to track and bring in bail jumpers or fugitives on the run. I know the above example is a bit of a stretch, but you get the idea. But you have to remember, a REAL bounty hunter has to work within certain lawful precepts. So if you create a PC who is a "real" bounty hunter, then he should probably have a SIN and a business liscence. If you are a "street" bounty hunter, then you could probably run it the same as in Star Wars.
Gabriel
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And ofcourse, taking them back alive is always a nice complication.
Though tasers and narcoject weapons help, as do certain spells.
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Good point, ROOTless. You may want to invest in some Skilltwitchers, Jackplugs, and a magemask or two. All of those can be found at the rear of the SR3 core rulebook. Oh, and be sure to get a high Intimidation rating. You might need it.
Gabriel
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Ah yes, DMSO is your friend.
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Awesome. Thanks, guys! I'll definitely put those suggestions to good use. I've also been debating making her an adept or just cyberwaring hte hell out of her- Ruski and I had a good long chat about the pros and cons of each. Thanks for all the help!
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If you want a bit of free advice, I'd avoid taking a starting PC's Esssence below a 3.0 or a 3.5 if possible. Remember, you can ALWAYS get hurt and need surgery, or even need to upgrade in an unexpected way. For example, I have a custom modified cybernetic arm. A complete, obvious right cyberarm. The thing is, as usefull as this thing is, I never wanted it. I had to get this thing because some Humanis cobber thought it would be a good idea to beat up an old orc lady when whe was coming home with groceries. I, however, thouht he should have a really CLOSE look at his own spleen. His chummer, on the other hand, thought I needed to see how it feels to have an entire AK-97 clip emptied into my sexy elven body. And he won that argument.
The point is, a walk down the street, and argument, and WHAM 1.0 point of Essence down the tubes. So keep that in mind when creating new PC's.
Gabriel, Cautionary Elf
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Well, I'm so loaded that I keep my own clone in my secret bio-lab, fresh for the pickin' whenever I get a nasty wound.
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A clone? That's awesome. :D
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Just for spare parts- the clone isn't sentient (and even if it was, it wouldn't be a copy of you- it grew up knowing nothing, and would have the reactions and speech patterns of a newborn.)
But it's good for that spare kidney that you need, or the brain tissue you needed grafted in after that car accident. It's also really expensive to do, so not many people can afford it.
-kv
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Yes, the clone is just a slab of meat. They've already basically said in canon that when they clone organs for you they simply clone the entire body and cut out what they need.
And no, it's not like "The Island" where the clones have to live lives in order to not die some mysterious death. They are meat.
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THey also say in cannon that there are no black clinics that handle cloning. That type of operation is way too big for a shadow operation. Of course, that doesn't mean there aren't some "less than legal" corporate and government facilities out there that could handle the job. That's one reason a lot of runners have chrome: no SIN means no cloning. You can, of course, get around that, but by the time you do, you've spent so much money and favors doing it that you should have just gotten the chrome. I say that as I type with my nice, metalic/plastic right arm. sigh....
Gabriel
PS - THAT'S why I make so many type-o's ROOTless, the cyber arm. Yeah... that's the reason. ;)
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PS - THAT'S why I make so many type-o's ROOTless, the cyber arm. Yeah... that's the reason. ;)
Then you need to take it down to some guy who knows what he's doing, for an adjustment! Imagine it messing stuff up like that in the middle of a firefight!
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Ah, it might take big facilities to make a clone, but you could easily steal your own clone from a legitimate facility, and have a friendly mage chummer (who is also well-compensated) quicken a Stasis, Fast and Sustenence spell on said clone...
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True, it's getting the clone made in the first place that's the problem. It's not like they don't check your SIN before they do the work, not just at pick-up. But yeah, if you could sleaze your way into the tissue banks, then getting that initiate chummer to help you out might be the thing to do.
Gabriel
PS - You would get an extra karma point in my game for coming up with that plan.
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Well, you'd probably need a myriad of other spells to do the trick too. But the Stasis spell would handle a majority of the work.
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Eleana if you ask Me adept is better way to go for one thing dont have to worry about setting of detecters 4 blocks away from all that chrome lol
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or make a Mage/shamen that bounty hunts
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If you decide to go with an awakened bounty-hunter, try a Dog shaman or even an idol-worshipping shaman aspected to Diana, goddes of the hunt. Those PC's get bonuses for detection spells, and taht will, after all, be your stok in trade. Also, it would be worth it to get a high Aura Reading score for purposes of finding clues based on assensing tests.
Gabriel
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Any of the canid totems except maybe fox would work, they are all good hunters. Perhaps one of the felines would work well too, then you could play with the prey and do all sorts of Bruce Willisisms before you take 'em down - I'd reiterate here that DMSO is a good friend indeed - coupled with sneaky ways to administer, you could be a real GM pain in the ass :D
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DMSO is fine, but I still prefer Gamma-Scopolomine. You gotta love a paralytic that degrades into a mild truth serum when you can move again. Of course, it's on the expensive side, but hey, that's why you make the big bucks.
Gabriel
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Awakened bounty hunters also have the advantage of being able to perform ritual sorcery to locate their target, if you have something to serve as the link. You could also do more than just locate them that way, too ;)
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I hadn't thought about that, but that's a damn fine point. In fact, with a powerfull enough mind-affecting spell, that bounty-hunter could even have the mark come to him. That's a damn good idea for a PC, Poison. If I EVER get to actually play a game of SR (as opposed to running them) I may very well do just that.
Gabriel
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I take it no one had considered the possiblity of a awaken bounty hunter
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Keep in mind, Gabe, that a mind-control spell is illegal in the UCAS.
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true but BH have traditionly had much greater latude in how the go about thier profession
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Yeah, but they still can't do anything illegal. They're allowed to pursue the suspect, but they're not legally allowed to torture people to find the person, and they can't murder to get what they want.
A bounty hunter using a mind control spell would very quickly find himself on the recieving end of a long-arm-of-the-law asskicking.
-kv
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Not entirely correct, Kid_Vid. A bounty-hunter, in real life, does not have to have a warrent to detain you, nor does he have the abide by the 4th ammendment restricting search and seizure. Boutny-hunters are only quasi-legal at all, being a hold-over from about 200 years ago when you had enormous tracts of land that didn't fall into any real juresdiction. In this day and age, they can get away with a lot that would get a police officer arrested for violations of constitutional law. However, I had forgotten about mid-effecting spells being illegal, which only makes sense. So any B-H using them would have to do so descretely and leave enough time fr the astral residue to wear off before turning the perp in.
Gabriel
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Well, there's a big difference between quasi-legal and totally illegal.
For instance, right here, today, it's illegal to murder someone.
It is okay to detain someone who's committed a crime (it's called a citizen's arrest- but you already knew that, being the son of a cop).
While they don't have to follow the letter of the law the same as a cop or federal agent, they do still have to follow the law.
-kv
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Again, being a registered bounty hunter does give you leway to ignore certain laws and even constitutional jureisdictions. You CAN enter into a house with no legal cause or documentation. And a citizen's arrest is a bit different from being able to beat the drek out of someone and drag them (literally) to the nearest police station. Again, the guidlines and boundries are hazy for bounty hunters.
Gabriel
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I bet a bounty hunter ciuld get away with it or you ritrul sorcery to locate them
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Of course, that still leaves you open for one hell of a civil lawsuit.
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Not really sure about that one. Maybe.
Gabriel
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I was under the impression that the whole purpose of bounties was to kill or capture certain persons that have been deemed worthy of kill or capture by the authorities, but whom the authorities are unable to kill (for obvious reasons) or capture (because they're too well connected) within the bounds of the law and the other procedures of law enforcement.
For example, it's not against the law to enter someone's house without an invite. It IS against police procedures to enter someone's house without an invitation or a warrant. So a regular citizen could legally enter the house of a criminal without letting them know (as long as they don't do anything that would constitute a B&E).
Also, I would assume that being registered as a Bounty Hunter would provide some legal protection against claims of minor infractions perpetrated in the apprehension of the bounty. Whether this would extend to mind-affecting spells... that would depend on the situation. In the example mentioned above, I would say the defence lawyers would argue that it is no different from drugging someone and getting them to perform acts against their will, and the Bounty Hunter would be in deep drek.
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as for a real life wxample look ay dog chapmen
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Oh please, that guy is a joke. What real life bounty hunter tries to LOOK like a movie version of a bounty hunter. That guy's got a super-hero fixation.
As for Poison's comment, it IS illegal for anyone to enter into a domicile without invitation or prior knowledge of the owner of the domicile, that includes both police and private citivens. However, bounty hunters have fallen into a legal crack, as it were, and no one really seems to want to pry them out. They are much too convinient.
Gabriel
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Actually, Dog is into problems of his own... I heard something about a mexican extradition due to legal problems from the time he picked up the heir to the MaxFactor fortune.
-kv
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Legal problems? Yeah, he got arrested. Kind of interesting bit of irony (or is it just coincidence?) to have a bounty hunter arrested for bounty hunting. Gotta love it.
Gabriel
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yhea and skiped the cort date
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It is illegal by UCAS law to affect someone with a mind-altering spell, period. Mind Probes, Control Actions, Control Emotions, Control Mind, etc are illegal by the Constitution both in regards to self-incrimination and other lesser statutes.
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I understand that, but so is illegal search and seizure (4th Amendment) but B-H's still get to do it. Like I said, legal blind-spot that the powers that be don't want to change.
Gabriel
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I think perhaps it's possible that you have a better understanding of the law than the writers of shadowrun (them being caffiene junkies from the northwest, and you being the son of a cop), and should integrate it into your games.
Or we could address this in our own module/run. Since they seem to be on the 'giving away runs for free to make people play 4th edition' kick, it might be an interesting enough plot hook to get thier attention.
Of course, Shadowrun has different laws when it comes to cops, and all that.
-kv
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Very true, and any GM is easily able to impose his version of law and order into the game. Since you don't get a free constitution with every copy of the core book, who's to say if even the majority of American law prevails in the UCAS.
Gabriel
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I thought the UCAS kept the constitution as it's governing document, although provisions were made for canadian citizens, as well as changing the number of congressmen and senators and everything.
That was my understanding.
-kv
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Yes, the UCAS Constitution is very similar to the United States constitution.
The law is interesting regarding magic. See, if a spell compels the target to incriminate themself, it violates the 5th amendment. So a Compel Truth spell or Control Actions would be illegal whereas a Detect Lie spell would not. Additionally, Spirits are not allowed to testify in a court room, hence making the "It's the victim's ghost!" case irrelevant.
Coercion and compulsion are illegal regardless of whether or not you're a cop or not. The same as black mail.
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We are arguing this point in circles. So let's change the subject.
Did Elena ever get to play her bounty-hunter?
Gabriel
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Actually, yeah. She made a physad bounty hunter named Seth...
(a chick named Seth, which was funny to me. She wanted to amidexterious edge (the biggest one), so I gave her racist and borrowed time. So now she's trying to earn enough karma to survive by getting rid of the flaw. She only has 8 months left to live at this point, I think)
But I'll let her tell you about the rest of it.
-kv
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How is the Borrowed Time flaw being used? Brain tumor? Kink Bomb? Mad Cow Desease???
Gabriel
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I told her that she had lung cancer (she wanted her character to be a bad-ass smoker- kicking people's asses and then lighting up afterwards), and she has 11 months before it becomes inoperable.
She kinda threw a fit about it, but I told her I was going to balance out the benefit of the max ambidexterity edge, and I did. She's gotten over it, though, and is hoping to earn enough karma to find out that she's dying of lung cancer, so they can grow her some replacement lungs in a vat somewhere- I already told her she could have a cyber replacement or some generic store-bought bioware, but she opted to keep her magic rating. ;D
-kv
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If she's a physad, sooner or later she's going to tumble to the fact that the temple ain't pure. A physad's whole being is body based, you should start giving her in game hints about her condition, then if she plays them well give her the karma she's going to need.
Seth must be one for the books if she's a chain smoking physad 8)
I have a physad bodyguard who does hangs out with a chain smoker but doesn't smoke or drink himself. But he still ripped the fingers right off a much bigger bouncer who got in his face ;D
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She's never read any of the books- I usually even breif her on even the most basic rules- although she did pick up a book or two the other weekend when we played.
-kv
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You know, I didn't catch onto it until Zone said something, but yeah, I'd like to see a cahin-smoking physad. Kind of like a virgin nymphomaniac.
Gabriel
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Wouldn't that just be someone who masterbated a lot?
Anyway, physads can have the same bad habits that the rest of us mundanes do- they just pay a greater price. But if you've been smoking for years, and then suddenly unlock the talent that allows you greater speed and the use of magic to enhance your paltry temple, you would use it, right?
Of course, that doesn't mean that smoking is any easier to give up in 2060 or 2070 than it is now- in fact, I think cigarettes would have to get worse to keep up with other recreational drugs. So heroin-laced cigarettes and worse would be around; ("Op-ettes, named for the opium lacing the makers give that satisfying tobacco flavor!") and since cigarettes are already hard to quit, life would only get tougher.
-kv
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There's two chains of logic here, rules-wise. Either smoking is considered drug-use or it is not. If it is drug use, then technically simply smoking can cause Magic Loss in the same manner as Drug Addiction provided she is addicted (which I presume she is, being a chain-smoker) Drug addiction has several other penalties such as reduced Body rating, permanently reduced essence, and loss of Condition Monitor boxes.
Of course, one could change what a "dose" is considered or raise the Edge rating of tobacco as a drug (provided you write your own drug description as such) In the very least, smoking should confer some kind of range reduction penalty (steady hands) at the expense of having to resist a light stun wound. But again, this is at your own discretion.
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Honestly, I can't really see using cigarettes as a drug at all, but that is my take. I would think it would be more of an image thing, after all, you could say one shot of tequila is a does of a drug and therby have to make addiction rolls and the whole nine yards. ANd yes, you COULD do that, but why would you want to add that much more paperwork to the SR world? Of course, someone who is an alchaholic may be forced to make those rolls, but again, I would just let it play out a "flavor."
Gabriel
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Yeah, I'm going to stick with Gabe on this one- I'm not going to have her roll for addiction until she tries to stop smoking- that way she doesn't start picking up on the penalties for it until she tries to stop. (Wasn't it Shaw who said that smoking is the easiest thing to quit in the world- because he did it every day?)
I'm going to give her enough karma to get rid of the flaw, but I am going to make her spend a crapload of money to buy new lungs, and then make her life difficult afterward when she tries to go back to life as usual.
But that's just my way of doing it. I like to use more flavor than rules, so if someone wants a girlfriend (in game), I laugh and let them get one, and then have her want him to spend as much money as possible on her.
One player I had wanted a super-hot girlfriend, so I had her demand that he put her in a luxury lifestyle, which tapped his bank account severely. After a few months, she left him to pursue a sim career, and he happily downgraded to a low lifestyle again, so he could start saving up for a car. ;D
-kv
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You know, I was going to do something similar to my Wolf shamman. At character creation, he looked at the knowledge skills and decided that if someone could have drek like Elven Wines, and Seattle Grunge Rock, he was going to take a skill called Sex Stud at a 6. So I let him. I mean why now? So anyway, he uses his studliness on and off through his games, more as flavor than anything else, and I decide that I am going to get him hooked up with this really hot, tough, smart indian chica and see what happens. What I WASN'T going to tell him is that she was a Master Shedim covering her hoop by living a "normal" life. Alas, I never had the chance to get the subplot going before the group disbanded.
Gabriel
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Well, the fact of the matter is that nicotine IS a drug and it has an effect. The trick is in the Edge rating. A nicotine could have an Edge rating of 60 pre-addiction and an edge rating of 1500 post addiction. So you could break the doses into packs so the initial edge is 4/100 packs pre and post and the roll occurs when the character's cigarettes run out. *shakes empty pack* "Damnitall! I need s'more smokes!" Make the roll then and there eventually the tolerance rating goes up so the character has to smoke another half a pack a day or whatever.
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Isn't EVERYTHING a drug that goes into your body. By defenition I mean. No Edge Rating for Ho-Ho's or Twinkies.
Gabriel
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Well, I wanted to reflect that it's easier to start than to quit.
And I already have other drug users in this group- there's one player who's a drugged out ex-kiddy tv-star (I picture Paul Ruebens), who now spends his days strung out and sleeping with supermodels.
Him I penalize for constant drug use.
Her, I wanted to reflect the somewhat pathetic tale of one of my 'winner' ex-girlfriends, who started smoking just because she was bored and everyone else was smoking, and couldn't stop. The very definition of 'dumb slitch,' I know, but it showed me how easy it was to get hooked.
-kv
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Nicotine is a drug. But I thought cannon had it outlawed?
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If you've ever seen anyone try and quit you know its a fraggin drug. Some rock burnout said ciggies were a harder kick than heroin
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Yeah, I've heard one crackhead I knew say that it was harder to kick than crack (but I think part of that is that its acceptable to smoke, where shooting up or smoking crack isn't usually socially acceptable).
I hadn't heard anything about it being outlawed in canon, though. Where'd you hear that?
-kv
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Nah, there's no way they'd outlaw tobacco. But if you have a reference I could be wrong.
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Nah, looks like we just extended from the "Enjoy RETRO sim <pic> grey lung cigarettes" commercial in the middle of the picture of p. 315 in the core SR3 book.
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"Are you passive aggressive?"
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ROOTless?? No, he's just plane aggressive.
Gabriel
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Nah, it's one of the little posters on the same picture ROOTless mentioned.
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I am guessing that most of you dont smoke or you would know that nictine does have affects for example there have been times that I light up after sleeping all night that I get dizzy and light headed or will light a
smoke to help stay awake
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Well, we know that it has effects, but we're debating what those effects should be in-game.
I mean, getting lightheaded when you take that first drag the same as +1 TN#s?
-kv
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Again, keep it as flavor. This game has WAY too many rules as it is.
Gabriel
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I'd say addiction penalties would apply, especially to Social encounters. I mean, have you ever tried reasoning with someone having a nicotine fit?
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yep, and it was fun!
:root:
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I watched two dipshits go thru all the ashtrays and collect all the unsoked tobacco in all the buts and roll two really skinny smokes from them. If thats not addiction....
And yeah it is kind of funny in a sad sad way.
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..but only when you're feeling particularly socially sadistic.
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Granted
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She didn't start smoking because she was bored. KV and I decided she started smoking because of her Improved Scent adept ability; trying to keep the stench of humanity at bay, a la Wolverine.
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Huh, that's kind of cool, actually. Of course, then you get the cancer, but hey, at least you don't have to smell SBD's all day long.
Gabriel
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One of the runners (an orc, I think?), a healer, tried to tell my character that something's wrong with her. But because he's A) an orc (and she's racist) and B) he's a pot head, she didn't believe him. Unfortunately. ;)
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LOL, that must be a fun group. You calling him a tusker and him calling you a breeder and no one really caring if the other gets shot in the head.
Gabriel (I'm an elf so the dirition would be Keebler)
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An elf, huh? She has a special aversion to elves. Pointy eared little pansies... ;D
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Chummer, physical adept don't mean a thing when you're paralyzed and helpless. Just start that racist drek where I can here you. >:(
Gabriel (I love playing character :P)
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Oooh, I have a pair of physads you should know. One is out of the NAN and one is boarderline sociopath from what I can tell. Just imagine a party of physads...
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That might get interesting. Especially if they had to go up against a pissed off decker/rigger. A bunch of PhysAd's having it out with a bunch of drones and security systems. That might be a fun game.
Gabriel
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My one physad was up against riggers so he just targeted them and left their drones to die when they did - scared the crap out of them too - that was fun ;D
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sounds like it.