Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => SR3 (Shadowrun 3rd Edition) General Discussion => Topic started by: Apothus on January 08, 2007, 09:52:02 AM
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I'm lookin to try and add some mods to my characters main weapon the Colt M-23 assault rifle. There were two ideas I had.
1) I could put a magnifying scope with a bipod on it and have it as a short range sniper and for full combat situations use the AK-98 I picked up as a backup weapon
2) Put a smaller red dot style scope on it to improve accuracy and reduce target numbers and what not, and still use it as my normal primary combat weapon.
Are these possible options that I can get away with? Am I allowed to carry two full assault rifles like in Idea 1? If possible, can your responses include specifics on what the mods will do for accuracy and all that good stuff? I don't have books or anything so I can't look anything up
Thanks everyone
Apothus
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Are these possible options that I can get away with? Am I allowed to carry two full assault rifles like in Idea 1?
Why wouldn't you be? They're bulky, and likely to be spotted, but it's not like you have some sort of artificial assault rifle slot to put them in. Your GM may have an oppinion, but the main limits are wieght and bulk. Maybe keep on in the car?
As for the rest, I don't know what edition you're using, but if you're using the 3rd (or earlier), the Cannon Companion had all the rules for modifications you could ever want.
If you're using the 4th, I can't help you (really), but I'd have to assume that the core rulesbook contains laser sights as well as magnification scopes and bipods.
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I'm his GM, and I'm burning him a copy of the core rulebooks as we speak. I didn't want to load him up with stuff to read until I was sure he was really interested, though... I mean, there's a LOT to read in Shadowrun.
Everyone chime in and let him know the advantages and disadvantages, though- I told him this was the place for answers if he ever had questions.
-kv
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I mean, there's a LOT to read in Shadowrun.
Did you ever play GURPS ith all the bells and whistles'? No? Good on yer mate.
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Yeah, nothing grabs me like "What? You already have 15 THOUSAND role playing books? How would you like to buy them all again for a completely new system!? It'll be awesome! Especially with how thick the core rulebook is!"
So I passed. I like playing new systems, so I'll probably get around to it eventually. Just like Serenity and Exalted. (Serenity is next on my list. And then probably 4th Edition Shadowrun. And then Exaulted.)
-kv
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I can recommend Exalted.
Just... don't worry if it looks like people are powergaming. They're meant to be like that.
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Hoi Ap,
Here's the deal. If you get a vision magnification scope, you end up reducing your long and extreme range by the rating of the scope. For instance, a Vision Mag 2 scope reduces Extreme Range DOWN by 2 notches, making it medium range. Therefore, all of your target numbers drop accordingly. This is a very good modification for a rifle, and excelent if you are planning on doing any sniping.
As for a laser site on your other gun, well, I don't like laser sites. They only give you a -1 Target Number, and they become visible in any kind of smoke/fog/dust etc. In the games I've run, there was always a chance that anyone targeted with a laser site would be able to follow it back and spot the shooter. Just my GM perogative, but there you are. I suggest a smartlink on ALL your guns. If you have cybernetics do NOT pass up an internal Smartlink II. It gives you a -2TN on all your shots, and a -1 TN to shots from underbarrel weapons like a grenade launcher or shotgun. Also, it is internal, therefore making it nearly imposible to spot. Of course, it only works with smartlink equiped weapons, but you can get that modification VERY easily.
As for carrying multiple weapons, think of it like this. If you, personally, carried a rifle into Walmart, what would the reaction be? What if you carried 2 rifles and a pistol in your belt? Since SR is so reality-based when it comes to social interaction, anything that goes in real life would probably work in SR. So you can easily carry a bunch of weapons with you, you just have to be able to get away with no one carring. Concealability is a must.
Gabriel
PS - Fill us in on what kind of character you're playing and it will help.
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Thanks for the replies so far. Looking forward to what K_V is sending me, lotsa reading. Gabriel, what you said about the laser sites makes sense, I hadn't really thought about that, thanks for bringin it up.
"PS - Fill us in on what kind of character you're playing and it will help."-Gabriel As to that, my character is an Ork Mercenary, 2 meters tall 110 kg for weight. For his cyberware: he's got wired reflexes + thermographic eyes, Smart Link II, obvious CyberArm with a shotgun in it. Both my shotgun and my M-23 Assault Rifle are smart linked but the AK I picked up off a dead guy so that isnt. His assault rifle skill is a 6
I can see how carrying two decked out assault rifles into the local arcade or stuffer shack might be a little disheartening to other customers ;D. Maybe K_V will let me get away with wearing a trenchcoat to hide the slim profiled rifles under.
Thanks again everyone
Apothus
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get a lined coat. Everyone wears them for the +2 concealability, not for the armor.
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I wear it for the armor. A neck to toe 4/2 armor is not to be laughed at. And when you get a fixxer contact who can get you form-fitting body armor, well it's a nice combination.
And AP, I would just ditch the AK-1 if I were you. A concealed shotgun is a VERY nice surprise/follback/hold-out. So unless you want to take the AK-1 home and modify it in your off time to resell or use only once in a while for specialized jobs, well that works too. I've noticed that you don't really need to load yourself down with all kinds of weapons if you have 1 or 2 that worl well for what you need.
For example, my primary weapon is a Ares Cybersquirt II tricked loaded with Gama-Scopolomine/DSMO rounds for my runs. I don't like killing anyone who doesn't need to be killed, so this takes them out very well. Now, if the drek hits the wire, then I have a Predator II with APDS rounds in it. If I absolutely HAVE to kill someone, then I want them out of the way quick and clean. And if all else fails, I always have a set of spurs and a built-in shock fist. The point being, for my style of fighting, these weapons work bvery well without me having to think about switching carrying too much gear and worring about just which weapon is just right for what I need to do.
May be something to think about.
Gabriel
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The less gear you carry the less hassle there is really. Only keeping a couple weapons means you gotta fumble around with them less.
Norths standard load is usually Max-Pow with a silencer and laser sight, a HK277-S with Laser sight, Defiance t-250 for a shotgun. I got other items kept squirreled away, an assault cannon, heavier rifles and other such, but most of those are from my way back running days. about.. 2-3 sets of arms ago.
Back when i had cyber arms i had a heavy pistol in the right, and left one had more sharp things then a kitchen. Best way is to pack as little stuff as you can that can be used most effectivly in the situation.
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Exactly, and never forget, the bad guys have guns too. If you need an extra, pick one up. Also, something most people overlook, the sound a weapon makes is pretty distinctive. For instance, EVERY runner knows the sound of a Lone Star service pistol. They only fire on burst mode, and the sound alone can get you geeked by cobbers who may normally have stayed out of the fight. So, if you are on a run, and you have to geek a security guard, using his weapon may actually draw less attention and add to the confusion for the other security guards. They may well think it is one of thiers doing the firing and that could by you a second or two.
Gabriel
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Well, the lined coat concealment is a guideline. You could have any long type of clothing add a concealment bonus.
Smartlink-2, including all the hardware is expensive but useful. Don't forget that Smartlink-2 reduces the modifier of called shots to +2 on top of its -2 target number. I'd recommend you also get a flash and sound suppressor for your rifles. Don't forget to grab some gel, rubber, or bean-bag rounds for your cyber-shotgun. Sometimes you want someone to answer some questions.
If you intend on buying grenades I'd recommend you pay double to reduce their size and raise their concealment rating. (ie Mini-grenades) and buy IPE versions for when you really wanna cause some trouble. The dual grenades are also very effective. Dual-charge Flash and Concussion grenades can not only incapacitate clustered enemies but blind the nearby ones as well.
Remember, Shadowrun is more about the Shadows and Running. That is to say, keep hidden, discreet and when the soyburgers hit the fan get with the running. Lower body-count maximizes profit potential and reduces backlash from the faction or corporation with the lackeys whom you are murdering.
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Speaking of which, I used to give a 3 point Karma Bonus to my group for any "Bloodless Victory" they were able to score. That is to say, they get in, do the job, and get out. No body count, no noise, no tracability. They never got that Karma Bonus once. :-\
Gabriel
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Ouch. My sympathies.
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Well, it did make the games interesting. But when you only get say 3 or 4 points of Karma maximum per game, that extra 3 points would have come in real handy.
Gabriel
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I made a "Heat Rating" of sorts. Every time the players iced a person and got caught in some fashion, their heat rating would go up, affecting their actions like racial prejudice in social encounters.
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Sounds like a good idea. Of course, it also sounds like a bit of paperwork, but still a good idea.
Gabriel
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How did you keep track of the 'heat,' then- I mean, was a street punk worth 1 heat point, and a corporate secretary worth 3, or was murder a certain amount of points, injuring people a certain amount, and explosions worth a different amount?
-kv
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It's basically in terms of exponential cost.
Say you steal a guy's soyburger that costs 10 nuyen. That gives you a heat rating of 1 with that person and his/her affiliates.
Now you'd have to continue to do stuff costing in total of 100 nuyen to raise it to 2. 1000 for 3, 10000 for 4, 100000 for 5, 1000000 for 6, and so on. Corporations keep track of even heat ratings of 1, but they aren't going to send out the hitsquad because you stole a box of ketchup packets, but once you head into the 5+ range, you start to piss some one off royally. These numbers can be modified to fit your game specifically with a multiplier (x2, x10, x20, depending on how you want to regulate it) This isn't necessarily direct material value, either. If you embarass someone in public and cost them a job or a huge business deal, you might see the heat rating from the loss of all that money.
Heat Rating acts like prejudice in someones eyes. Effectively, you are a liability, you've done some damage, stole a car, killed a goon (depending on what price you put on good goons) and trusting you is a problem. However, just like racial prejudice, Heat can be alleviated with a good Charisma roll temporarily. The only way to permanently reduce heat is to make some profit for that person. However, this shouldn't be used so mechanically that a player can kill a person's family brazenly and then buy them some drinks and it'll all be okay. Some people are priceless. Killing lovers, family members and close friends can earn you a Heat rating of 10 making any reasonable discussion impossible, regardless of how charismatic you are.
Heat is not entirely mechanical, it should be used as a litmus for character interactions, and is not necessarily set in stone.
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I like the idea- I might have to implement this stuff next time I GM Shadowrun.
-kv
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Yeah in 2056. Maybe by then I'll get to play as a character and not a GM.
Gabriel
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Hey, If/When you come down for my wedding, we'll have a Shadowrun game for my bachelor party, and you can come hang out and play and get all of my friends killed. ;D
Anyway, but weapon modificiations... any other questions?
-kv
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Chummer, I'm planning on coming down for the wedding. Just need to remember to dust off Gabriel and bring the Twinkies. ;)
Oh, and has anyone noticed that in the Cannon Companion you can get an underbarrel grip for a rifle and an underbarrel wieght for a rifle, both of them helping with recoil, but you can't get a weighted underbarrel grip? What's that all about? I always assumed you could get a grip weighted for an additional cost, but it doesn't appear anywhere in the books? Who missed THAT?
Gabriel
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The underbarrel weight is for pistols, Gabe. The grip is rifles and shotguns. Weighting the barrel will help little, I think, considering the muzzle velocity of most shotguns and rifles.
This also begs the question: Why can't you make a customized underbarrel grip? I mean, everyone needs 9 points of recoil compensation, right?
Player: "I'm going full auto, targetting 3 people with 3 rounds per."
GM: "Okay, let's see here, that's a penalty for recoil of..."
Player: "Hey, I have recoil comp 9, there shouldn't be any penalty!"
GM: "You're kidding, right?"
This is why a 10 STR troll with a gyromax-stabilizer and a minigun is very very scary.
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And also why the troll is targeted FIRST! Even before you geek the mage, hit that troll with about 25 manabolts and a slay troll spell.
And I never noticed the grip was for a pistol. I must have missed that. Thanks.
Gabriel
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as for laser sights I would only bother putting them on pistols and shotguns
because of the ranges your shooting at it helps get you on target faster
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As I recall, the Smartlink II system has additional benefits at long/extreme range... but I'd have to check again.
I normally Smartlink II all my weapons if I have the appropriate cyber.
It's a pity that flashbangs were never quite implemented using the Shadowrun system - they'd probably be a Flash/Concussion grenade combo, or perhaps a Smoke/Concussion grenade combo... but seeing as they're commonly used these days it's an oversight not to have them defined.
On the original question, I'd turn the Colt M-23 into an Assault weapon - unless you're likely to regularly need to snipe... in which case you're better off getting a dedicated sniper rifle anyway. So throw the concealability to the wind (it starts with 2 or 3 anyway, so not much to lose) and pack it out with a high rating Gas Vent, Shock Pads for the stock, Smartlink II system and the nastiest ammo you can lay your mits on. Get a good pistol (my favourite is the Colt Manhunter) as a backup, or for jobs where you may need some high penetration in a small package.
A special mention to the HK227S - it's silent, it's deadly, it's perfect for stealth missions where you need some take down power. Modern-day Spec-Ops use the HK MP5-SD, and I consider the HK227S to be the 2050's equivalent.
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poison to your mods I would ad a foregrip fold out side mounted
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I'd like to mention a few things that came to mind while reading this post (specifically laser sights):
Just like Gabe said, lasers will be visible with any small amount of smoke or dust. The exception to this I believe would be red-dot sights. Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_dot_sight). Red dot sights function similar to laser sights, they put a dot where the gun is pointing. The main difference is that the dot is only projected inside the sight. Probably the most commonly used sight in military/security services today IMHO. In any case it's easy to say that someone got this as a mod to a firearm rather than the standard laser sight. Downfall is that it would be top-mount only. Generally they'd be a bit more expensive as well, but you could integrate thermo/low-light like any other sight.
The other type of sight is infrared laser sight. Example (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/801/sesent/00). These function just like a standard laser sight, but is not visible on the normal light spectrum (only visible in SR with thermographic vision I'd say, as low-light only enhances visible light). Kinda neat, could be used on standard firearms or even as a laser target for infrared homing missiles or some such.