Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => History & Politics => Topic started by: Gabriel on January 23, 2007, 01:02:03 PM
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Any group with more than 6 playable characters is a mob. I don't see how anyone can have fun at a game that big, especially the GM. I think i would have to kill at least 5 of those people just to get their PC's out of the way.
Gabriel
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Well, Ruski (who was GMing) sent us into the Renracu Arcology to tangle with Deus, and maybe that's what he was trying for.
This is a group of pretty much all new runners, and I'm thinking the group leaving will be smaller than the group that entered. There are a few of us who are going to survive, but we'll be the minority.
-kv
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Who do you predict will survive? 'Cause, you know, my gal already has a serious chainsaw wound across her ribs.
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Actually, I'm hoping that our friend with the dual-grenade launchers bites the big one... jsut because I'm constantly afraid that something is going to go horribly wrong. Plus, he's basically worthless once we're actually face-to-face with one of these things.
I mean, who wants to be 5 feet away from the evil creature when some moron is firing HE Anti-personell grenades at it? That's just a recipe for unpleasantness.
Of course, I'm trying to stay hidden and on the down-low with the whole invisibility thing. Although the whole "Ultrasound and thermographic can see you anyway" is a little annoying. Actually, I was meaning to ask these guys about that.
What say you, denziens of my favorite Pub?
-kv
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the dude with the grenade launcher needs to be iced. If I was playing in that game and he did something stupid like that I'd kill him for endangering the run and the team.
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I say that if you are already in the Black Pyramid, then you are fragged, plane and simple. You know how that storyline turns out, ultimately, and you know that on a realistic level the idea of survival in that hell-hole is almost laughable. So bearing that in mind, I say tell the Johnos "Frag that money," head for the lowest levels possible, and try digging your way into the sewers.
Of course if you can't do that, then put Mr. Grenades up front. He can thin the herds of drones and banded and you may be able to get a bit of a break with the rest. Does anyone in your group have a monofiliment wip? If so, set traps with it. Do any of your guys have any decent-level B/R for guns and whatnot? If so, booby trap some of the banded's weaposn after you have a fight with them. Does anyone have a decent B/R Electronics? If so, head for the mall levels, or take some time to scrap a drone or two, and rig up some portable white-noise generators to baffle ultra-sound cybernetics. Do you have any mages/shamans? Take the drain from the horrible Background Count and summon a Level 1 Air Elemental/Wind Spirit to hover around each of your runners so that those itty-bitty bumble bee drones can't get you. Any decent breeze will be able to stop them.
Remember, if you are in the Black Pyramid, the best weapon you have is your cunning. You CAN NOT WIN in an all-out fight longer than the AI wants you to win. If you try to take it on that way, you will lose at least 75% of your group before you are small enough to stop attracting a lot of attention. Oh yeah, and salvage from the dead.
Gabriel
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Yeah... the most terrifying thing about it, for me, is that I know what we're walking into, but I can't play like I do, or tell anyone else about it. So I have to walk around, cautious but not prepared.
I kinda cheated, and I nuked the bees with a ball lightning spell, although I do have a force 2 air elemental and a force 4 fire elemental summoned and on standby. I didn't think of the elementals keeping the bees away, and that should work great, so thanks.
We actually came in through the ork underground, so we snuck in through the lower levels and up some stairs until we got to the mall, which is where we ran into the majority of our problems. We fought some Red Samurai turned Banded, one of those big chainsaw-weilding drones like on the cover of the book, the bees, and floorsweepers armed with weapons.
We tried to take the elevator, and ended up in the maze, so rather than going through all of that stuff, we climbed back into the elevator shaft and climbed up a few stories until we were above the maze and all of that stuff. So now we're in the "official" section of the arcology, and among the people who have no idea what's going on. Or maybe they're banded, and we're screwed.
-kv
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Be careful of the astral security in the arcology. Just about all the mages/shamans there are WAY toxic at this point. And also remember, any awakened PC's have a good chance of getting some toxic leanings if they stay there too long, too. Also, you may want to think about finding some medkits for your people. If you get to one of the residential blocks, look for medkits in people's apartments. The banded probably won't have taken them all since most of the residents are accounted for, so you have a good chance of getting some supplies there.
Are you going through the Brainscan module, or just an indepindant run?
Gabriel
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This is a demon baby of Ruski's own making, so as far as I know, he's just giving it to us with both barrels, and not sticking to the run specs.
We don't usually deal with magic much, but last time I managed to pick up a level of initiate and metamagic Masking, so I'm hoping that'll make it a little more difficult for the mages to see me coming.
-kv
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Well, just remember, you can get just about anything you need of a mundane (that is to say non-lethal) nature within the Black Pyramid, but you may have to get past a bunch of banded to do it. Magical rescourcess will be the hardest to get to, obviously.
Gabriel
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crappity crap
i havent read through that one, which one is it?
sounds like i need to get ahold of it
heh
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If you ever want to play in the Arcology, then DON'T get the book. Believe me, it will be much more fun if you don't know what's coming. If you plan to run a game, however, get Renracu Archology: Shutdown and Brainscan. They are for 2nd and 3rd Edition respectively, but very good books.
Gabriel
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Who do you predict will survive? 'Cause, you know, my gal already has a serious chainsaw wound across her ribs.
Hey Elena V, what powers does your adept have? All I know is that you have Enhanced Sense: Smell. Other than that, I'm kind of in the dark as to what kind of capabilities your girl is running with.
Gabriel
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Oh, I'm not playing her anymore. I get bored with characters pretty quickly, and I'm a little frustrated with the group at the moment. So I think I'll either get this gal killed off, or just drag her wounded ass through the rest of the run, and take a break from Shadowrun for a while. I'm tired of everyone having super geeked-out characters because it makes me feel like I have to have the same kind just to keep up, and I don't really feel like playing an ork tank with level three wired reflexes and a 9 in assault rifles. Plus the group's just too big for my liking. :-\
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Too bad. Although a huge group like that turns into a pi$$ing contest sooner or later. I prefer smaller groups. Solo runs can be fun too. You know, you could always play an Arcology survivor for your next character.
Gabriel
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Well, one of my good friends- part of the reason we get together when we do every month- has discovered the joys of wired reflexes and min-maxing. So he has said ork tank with wired reflexes level 3, and ambidexterity 8 edge, so he can actually fire two grenade launchers at the same time, so he can fire the grenade launchers 6-8 times each initiative.
It's killed the game, at least this last one, because everything slows down, he gets to blow things up six times, and then we get to climb through the rubble/pick through the body parts or whatever.
I think it's finally time that I start doing intiative passes right. We've been functioning on the second edition principle that everyone goes in numerical order, so the first pass at 36 goes first, and then if no one else goes before 26, that guy gets to go again before everyone else. And then again at 16 if no one else goes.
Technically, the pass should go through EVERYONE'S first initiative pass first, and then everyone's second pass, and then everyone's third pass (and then a fourth pass if there's still time).
I don't know if that would make a difference, though.
-kv
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The initiative pass architecture in 3rd Edition is stupid. If I have wired reflexes, I SHOULD go faster than anyone else, not just go longer than anyone else. All of the literature talks about street sammies who are on the wire going faster than a normal man can even grab his gun, much less draw it and shoot. So having everyone go on pass 1 & 2 before moving on to the "fast" guy on pass 3 & 4 is so backwords that I don't know how anyone could think it's realistic in the slightest. The entire point of wired reflexes is to go first, and go fast.
Gabriel
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Yeah... but in our group, we have a bunch of retards with wired reflexes... so the retards go first, go again, go a third time, and then the people who bothered to be good at anything... well, they get to go finally.
I mean, I made a mage because I wanted to learn more about the magic system. But in order to ever be able to do anything, I had to make a mage who took physad skills, and then put half of his magic rating into 'path of the mage' so that I could even keep up.
The thing is, I'm tired of a group that does this stuff too- I really want to start playing games where we're able to attempt to do the 'no kill' thing, without a manic psychotic cutting up civilians to alleviate boredom.
Hell, I might suggest we switch game systems, just so I don't have to deal with it.
-kv
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The initiative pass architecture in 3rd Edition is stupid. If I have wired reflexes, I SHOULD go faster than anyone else, not just go longer than anyone else.
Actually, when you think about it (and things last for more than one round...) it even out.
Take a bunch of actions in the end of round one, take a bunch of action in the beginning of round 2, not a huge difference. Other than that, I agree, I just also find initiative booster a pest.
What K_V describes, sounds suspeciously like my very first SR group, back in the first edition.
Except that back then, our initiative monkeys were dwarves with MMGs.
I got to act once - I think - in combat during the entire storyline. Against a toxic shaman (I played a mage) - and with none of the gun bunnies present.
Other than that, why on earth are you even bothering to try with such a huge group? split them into 2 - or even 3 - groups, there are easily enough people for it, and the more people, the less room for roleplay (as opposed to roleplay aka. rollplay/ruleplay) in my experience. Also, it's hell on the GM.
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Exaclty. Of course, you could always have Deus release some airborn neurotoxins into the air supply. Always remember, Deus is a program based on social interaction and therefore has a long history of watching and manipulating people. It is safe to say that he may well have the ventelation shafts rigged with chemical sparyers for crowd control. Lure the runners into an area, then hit them with the neurotoxin. The PC's with wired reflexes find that by the next day, they can't move like they used to as the adrenal pumps and chemical enhancers have decayed and need to be replaced.
Solves the problem without killing the PC's. It also adds another dimension to the game: seeing your PC taken apart peice by piece. Deus is experimenting with everyone inside the Arcology, use that in the game and start having him "play" with the PC's a bit.
Gabriel
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Well, Ruski is running this game, and he and I kind of talked about it before we got started, because I think we were both noticing the trend. I told him my method for keeping PCs slightly easier to manage- I let them pick the edges, and I pick the flaws.
But he said that he didn't want to do that, because the one friend who was creating the character (the one we were discussing about being overpowered) had a certain concept in mind, and he didn't want to mess with that. I was a little dissapointed, because I don't think the 'dark secret' flaw balances out the ambidexterity 8 edge. Although it could still turn out okay, because he also took the dependant 4 flaw, which I told him how Gabe, Ruski and I talked about that, but he took it anyway.
Maybe it'll mean that he doesn't have money to buy 6000 new grenades, like he had for the beginning of this run. Of course, if that's the case, I expect to see a new character without the dependants surfacing soon.
-kv
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Maybe he's banded? Nice dark secret to have in the Arc. Has anyone ever seen him without his shirt on?
Gabriel
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No, his dark secret is that he's married and has two kids.
I guess the dark secret is from them, because he doesn't want them to know that he's really a shadowrunner. Or mabye he doesn't want his enemies to know that he has a family they can kill in retribution. Or maybe it's that he doesn't want his friends to know that he drives a minivan during the week. I'm not sure which part of it is supposed to be a dark secret that would ruin him if he was exposed, but there you have it.
-kv
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That seems WAY too mundane for a dark secret. Oh well.
Gabriel
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I'm hoping Ruski (who is GMing) will take it to him for the Dependant flaw- make him give away all his money for the wife and kids, which would make me feel a little better. I mean, who wouldn't like to see the drekky runner make only 20% of what they are, because he sucks and shouldn't have survived? But, you know, probably will.
-kv
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Hey now, I ended up having to borrow money one on run just to buy ammo when I had the Dependant flaw. THAT succkes. And it took me FOREVER to get the 40 karma to buy out of that. Oh, that and a Serious chest wound and about a dozen dead bodies. Oh yeah, and a few new enemies. Oh, and my doss got blown half up. And so did Spirit's.
When I get rid of a Flaw, I REALLY make it believable.
By the way, has Ruski imposed the background count rules on your mages/shamans while you are all inside the Arc? At the moment, the BG hovers between 4 & 5. In fact, If I had ever gotten the chance to use that setting in my games, I was going to have the BG count last at a permanent 2/3 pretty much forever. Even with the Renracu geomancers and Shinto Priests cleansing it, You don't get rid of taht much concentrated evil mojo in less than a generation.
Gabriel
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Ruski doesn't know the magic system very well, which is kind of why I wanted to run a mage character- so we would all get comfortable with it. But now I'm comfortable with it, and he's still asking me for rules.
That's a long way of saying that No, we haven't kept track of the background count in the arcology. Does that background count work against banded mages, or just outside influences?
-kv
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Banded mages have become atuned to it. So if you are a mind-controlled, toxic mage, then you should have no problem. But if you are not, then you have to add a +4 TN to everything you do magic-wise. And I forget how it affects astral perception, but I know that is dicey too. Think about trying to go astral at Auschtwitz (sp) and getting all of that horror, pain, and hopelessness all hitting your astral form at once. That's what you can expect in the Arcology at the time of the run. YOu should read up on it. I believe all of that is covered in MitS.
Gabriel
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Yeah, I read about the aspected background counts in there, too. Also in Salt Lake (from all the Mormons!) and the Vatican.
How does background count affect astrally percieving, though? I wasn't aware it had any effect there.
-kv
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It certainly has an effect, that's why if you go astral in orbit (Rating 10 Background Count = Astral Warp) you're mage/shaman can go berserk, freak out, kill everyone, or just die of a siezure. I forget the actual effect (and am too lazy to check at the moment) but I'm thinking it raises the TN for any astral perception tests like tracking or assensing. But personally, I would impose some extra modifiers for getting all freaked out by the astral pollution all aroud you. All that negative emotion has to freak out a normal mage.
Gabriel
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I thought you could astrally percieve, but not astrally project?
Oh, well, time to go look up some rules!
-kv
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I'm thinking you have to make a Willpower check with a TN of the background count to really do anything. But again, too lazy to look up the rules.
Gabriel
PS - Have fun casting ANY spells now. :-\
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silly question how can the gende bunny cary that many never mind if he is strong enough the aea they would take up wouldnt be possible unless he is towing a wagon behind him to hold the ammo
even if thie microgeandes
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Uhhh... what?
-kv
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I think he's talking about your guy with wired reflexes and 2 grenade launchers. Mercy is asking about how the guy would be able to carry that many grenades. I'll have to agree with him, grenades aren't exactly light.
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yes ingdgo was efeing to the space that many would take up even in thie mico thats still alot of space to take up
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Background count level applies itself as a Target Number Modifier on all Magicial Tests (Sorcery, Conjuring, and Enchanting) So to cast a spell in a Background count 4 area is a +4 TN.
Characters resisting Drain in a Background Count Area have a +1TN modifier per every 2 levels of BC. So that same spell would be at +2 Drain TN.
This effect is present on both the physical and astral planes. It is noticeable to Awakened with a Magic Test, or is Very noticeable to anyone assensing the area. It is like a fog in the astral, or a taste of emotional content. It is caused by emotional feedback left in an area, including both positive and negative emotions. (It would be similiarly distracting to the senses in a camp in Auschwitz, as it would be in Chartres Cathedal, but the impressions would be vividly beautiful.)
Most weak individual background counts fade over time, but most areas usually have some level of BC continously.
Magic in the Shadows page 83. . .
That should answer the question. I hope I'm not overquoting the thing. . .
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How do background counts affect summoning?
Does it affect a shaman summoning on the fly? How about a elemental? Do spirits become corrupted by background counts?
-kv
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It DOES affect summoning of both elementals and nature spirits in the same way as spellcasting, as Conjuring is one of the affected Magical tests.
+1 Target Number Modifier per level of BC for the Conjuring Success test, and +1 Drain Target Number per every 2 levels of BC.
I do not think that elementals and spirits are corrupted by Background Count, although they probably don't like it. However, they would have difficulty doing things like assensing, noticing things, spellcasting (if they can use it), or using some innate abilities, just as a Mage or Shaman would in their position. The same modifiers apply to Force tests that require Magic tests (Like contesting a Banishing Conjuring test). Astrally tracking people is harder in a thick emotional haze.
Mana Warps, which are Much, Much stronger areas of Background count (BC levels 6-10) can corrupt, kill, or cause insanity in Spirits just as it can in metahumans.
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Yeah, I remember the first time I used background counts in a game. It was a "retirement run" for one of the characters, and so I sent them into a cult that had been practicing blood magic, the area was saturated with background count, and although it was negative to the players, it was a positive for the cultists.
The one thing I didn't plan for? No one brought a mage. A bunch of sleepies and one groggy walked in there with the biggest guns they could find and gave the place a lead paintjob. Only the head mage managed to last more than one round, and he got gacked halfway through the second round.
If I had known what I was doing, I would have had the mage summon a couple of spirits to be on hand (or lied and said he had summoned them), but it did not go well for me. I think they walked out of there easier than any run before.
-kv