Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => History & Politics => Topic started by: Zone on January 16, 2005, 12:27:42 PM
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Egyptian Timeline
* 1998 - August, Bombings in Africa prompt U.S. retaliation. Anti U.S. sentiment spreads through out Africa and the Middle East.
* 1999 - Muslim Extremists begin terrorist bombings at U. S embassies. Tension rises. Egypt defies this and assists the U. S. by cracking down on all radicals within Egyptian soil. Martial Law is declared after popular support drops.
* 2005 - Suez Canal is captured by terrorists. Shipping is cut is cut off from The Med and the Red Sea. Joint operations with U. S. and Egyptian forces retake the canal, however parts of the canal are destroyed. Rebuilding begins.
* 2009 - Dams along the Nile are hit with high explosives, flooding many parts of the Nile Valley. President Saban vows to bring the terrorists to justice, having press gangs spread through the cities. Rebuilding of the Suez Canal is almost complete.
* 2010 - President Saban is assassinated. President Hassan takes over. He revokes freedom of the press as well as public meetings. A strict curfew is enforced. Thousands are arrested. Corporations begin to put their legs down in Egyptian soil.
* 2014 - Saeder Krup offices are bombed. Several whole villages disappear. 5 bodies of Hammas leaders are found hanging in Cairo. Martial Law is repealed, new Egyptian Secret Police are formed.
* 2015 - Several African nations begin to organize. Treaties are signed, some tribes merge to form larger ones. Once again, the Zulu’s wage war in Central and Southern Africa.
* 2016 – Egypt Bombs Tripoli in response to Libya’s build up of forces along the Egyptian border. War between Egypt and Libya begins.
* 2018 - Omar Khadafi is killed by Egyptian Special Forces team. Egypt annexes part of Libya. World Popular support for Egypt begins to drop, however domestic popular support rises to all new levels. Borders are closed to all tourists for a brief period of time.
* 2019 - Revolt in occupied Libya occurs. It is put down quickly and violently. African incursions from Ethiopia are repelled.
* New power is gained by African shamans, who begin to push foreigners out. Any who stay are wiped out.
* 2022 - Egyptian artifacts begin to “disappear” from foreign museums. Spirits and high magic are detected near the Giza Pyramids as well as the Valley of the Kings. Tourists are attacked by paranormals. Pyramid area is quarantined since attacks only take place around them. Sphinx’s eyes are rumored to glow by eyewitnesses.
* 2023 - Rumors of the Cult of Ra begin. Shamans and mages are hired to repel the new Spirit invasion. A magical barrier is placed around the pyramids, and the spirits appear to be contained. “Archaeological” teams begin to search Egypt and other countries for lost cities.
* 2028 - Sub-Saharan Tribes invade Egypt, Libya, and other Muslim nations. Mercenaries are hired out to help fight. The Egyptian black markets begins in Alexandria. Corporations assist in the combat for certain concessions. Egyptian Organized crime spreads.
* 2029 - Border wars with Sub- Saharan African Tribes abate. Treasure hunters’ report of gold in the pyramids as well as in other tombs, as well as sacrifices. Mysterious Oases appear in the desert. Some hunters return mad.
* 2029 - Peace has prevailed for a time. Small skrimishes are fought with the Tribes and Libya. Algeria and Libya try to annex Tunisia. The Arab nations armed with new mystic warriors mobilize their armies on Israel’s borders. War with Israel seems imminent.
* 2030 - Most Arab nations attempt to invade Israel. Egypt refrains from this Invasion, earning it the scorn from other Arab nations. The Arabs are defeated in less than 18 days. Most of the attacking forces were wiped out by a secret Israeli weapon, though no one could report exactly what it was.
* 2031 - Tunisia conquered by Algeria. Libya backs off but keeps all of its borders heavily guarded.
* 2032 - War returns as the Sub-Saharan Tribes attempt to invade again. New Paranormal Animals are used this time, including Elephants, Rhinoceros, and Lions. New Technology vs. the Magic ends in a stalemate. Guerrilla tactics ensue. Mercenary hiring reaches an all time high.
* 2035 - War again abates. There is relative peace in the region.
* 2039 - Night of Rage ravages the world. Many metahumans and humans are killed in the holocaust. Libya uses this night to invade Egypt, attempting to retake the annexed lands. Libya is repelled.
* 2045 - The Egyptian government hires mercenary units to scout into Tribe held lands. Magical Background count begins to rise at Giza.
* 2047 - Glowing “Sun” appears over Giza Pyramids, visible for miles around. Spirits are visible in the area.
* 2050 - Sub-Saharan Tribes renew their attack, invading again. However, new pieces of technology have been added to their arsenals, as well as new tactics. Egyptian military is hard pressed.
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* 2046 - In the Libyan desert, Egypt, two corporations get wind of a top-secret weapons lab that managed to avoid detection by both Israel and the United Nations. Both corporations send in strike teams to acquire the base and end up in conflict with each other. The conflict turns into an all-out battle which is covered by the media. The broadcast receives worldwide interest and the Corporate Court, realizing that they have a potentially lucrative product in broadcasting wars between corporate forces, cuts a deal with the Egyptian Government for long-term use of the Libyan Desert as a training ground for corporate security personnel. The broadcast becomes an annual event called Desert Wars with "skirmishes" staged at other times of the year and training exercises going on almost all the time. (Target: Wastelands)
* 2061 - In Cairo, Egypt, Islamic mullahs, who normally hold significant sway over the local population, begin to mobilize for the Islamic Unity Movement. As a result, the city of Cairo quickly becomes a refuge for secular Arabs and Middle Easterners who don’t agree with Islamic Unity Movement policies. (Sprawl Survival Guide)
* 2062 - In Egypt, magical phenomena including the appearance of ancient Egyptian buildings and spirits in the form of Egyptian gods causes a surge of people joining Egyptian religious revivalist cults. In addition. People claiming to be reincarnations of ancient Egyptians make themselves known. They appear to have unprecedented knowledge of ancient Egyptian culture, language, and history. (Target: Awakened Lands)
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What about Aden? The new Islamic Jihad?
-Kid Vid
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That isn't specifically Egypt, but Iraq and Iran.
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You're not telling me that Aden taking out all of those cities didn't affect the Islamic Jihad (which had repercussions in Egypt), and that the political climate of the middle east didn't affect the Nile Country at all.
What about it? What is the timeline, and what were the affects?
-Kid Vid
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So, why did this thread come about? Was there talk in another thread? No big deal, I was just curious why Zone posted a history of Egypt, etc. suddenly.
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You're not telling me that Aden taking out all of those cities didn't affect the Islamic Jihad (which had repercussions in Egypt), and that the political climate of the middle east didn't affect the Nile Country at all.
What about it? What is the timeline, and what were the affects?
All what cities?
Aden took out one city ... Tehran ... in 2020.
If you want to know more about the timeline in Shadowrun, I suggest you check the Shadowrun Timeline (http://timeline.dumpshock.com/).
There's also the Shadowrun Wiki (http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/Main_Page) for collected OOC info on Shadowrun.
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Zone posted all the stuff Zone posted yesterday because Zone was cleaning out old files. This was something I had and posted it for no other reason than someone might find it interesting. It don't have to be Gospel if you don't want it to be. For all I know I took it off someone's homegrown SR sight lo these many moons ago.
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It is from a private site. The only official timeline entries specifically for Egypt are the ones I listed (as far as I know).
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I've got a link to Shadowrun Boston too:
http://www.urbin.net/EWW/RPG/SV/SRUN/BOSTON/boston.html
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There's quite a few out there. Take a look at the (badly in need of updating) list of locations (http://geocities.com/awakenedfiles/locations.htm) on my web page. Quite a few that are listed as down are now up again, and vice versa though.
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*SHRUG* i thought it was cool... i may have my runners pulling something out of egypt soon...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I believe I originally dug out the Egyptian info because Irish (of the late lamented Once Upon a Time story) had a ex-supermodel cousin who was an elf of Irish/Egyptian stock.
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hmm... that would be a cute mix...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Cute doesn't cover it ... in fact she'd probably hit you with a libel suit for that ;)
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LOL great! normally guys gotta pay for that kinda abuse!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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To get sued?
It's easier than you think!
-Kid Vid
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I believe I originally dug out the Egyptian info because Irish (of the late lamented Once Upon a Time story) had a ex-supermodel cousin who was an elf of Irish/Egyptian stock.
Hehehehehe... I got a patch full of Laes for this young lady. Hehehehehe.... ;)
Gabriel
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didn't you have a patch of that stuff for your mom?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I can't believe you actually talked about my mother....
Gabriel
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gabe they all ways talk about your Mom
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Not lately. Oh well, I'll have to get the Sniper Smily out again. ;)
Gabriel
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well, when she gets to drinking, your mom and my mom alwies drive the harley's up and down the street untill the cops come, then they yell and swear at them untill they get thrown in jail....
-RuskiFace the Pirate
can i have one of your extras?
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If you have ¥1,000 you can have one. ;) That drek is TOUGH to get a hold of, chummer. Besides, you mom always ends up blacking out and forgetting half the night anyway. :drunk:
Gabriel
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Only because your mom is always calling the 'girls gone wild' people and telling them that there's a wild party they need to be at right now...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Only because your's is too drunk to make the call herself. And hey, leave the woman alone, she's proud of her body. ;)
Gabriel
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well, it's not so much hers as barbie's. with that many plastic parts, i'm suprised she has any essense left. at least my mom got cool cyberware like the eye laser... so what if she only uses it to cut off the tops of beer bottles...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Hell, my mom wouldn't have so many plastic parts if your drunk mother would control that fraggin' laser eye of hers. I mean damn, chummer! It's tough to keep your own nose when the woman you're helping stand up lets that laser cut in and cant control where here eyes are rolling.
Gabriel
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well she wouldn't get so cross-eyed drunk if your mom didn't alwies get the cheapest hooch known to the circle K.
-RuskIFace the Pirate
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How the hell is she supposed to afford anything else with that drunk you call mommy chopping pieces off of here very saturday night?
Gabriel
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it's called preventative spending... you pay a little bit more for the booze, and save later on with less plastic surgery.
although i wouldn't expect her to understand that, what with her 3rd grade education and all.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well yeah, she is not very educated. I guess that's why she hangs out with your mom. A woman with a 4th grade education and a degree in Drunken Partying is a usefull contact to have, after all.
Gabriel
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Oh for Frag's sake - get back on topic before I get cranky >:(
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Ok, good point. How about you steer us back to history, Z-Girl.
Gabriel
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well, your mom has a history. anyone that old was there when history was happening.
LOL
er... okay. so... what history were we talking about?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I believe it had something to do with Egypt, and Gabe using Laes to get into a supermodel's pants :P
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Nah, you use the Laes AFTER you've gotten into her pants, then you can convince her it was so good she blacked out and had to block out the whole thing so she could function on a daily basis. ;)
But as far as history goes... well I didn't read the original post. :-\
Gabriel
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hmmm... okay, how about we start talking about our charichter's personal histories. some of the cool stories we used as background.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, everyone here pretty much knows Gabriel's history. And since I haven't had a chance to really play any other character, well, bummer for me. :-\
Gabriel
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alright, well, how about this: you are going to be makeing a new charichter, let's say he's going to be a long term NPC of sorts, but useing the regular creation stats.
-RuskiFace
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Nah, you use the Laes AFTER you've gotten into her pants, then you can convince her it was so good she blacked out and had to block out the whole thing so she could function on a daily basis. ;)
Gabriel
Unless you're a tripod I don't think she'd believe you, and would probably have the authorities on you for using a date-rape drug :P
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yea, but she would have done that anyways.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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http://www.randomdialogue.net/gaming/sr2003/history.php
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"He is the first nonhuman elected to the office in either U.S., Canadian, or UCAS history."
HAHAHAHHAA... I think that might qualify as WORLD history... unless you count Caligula's horse, who techincally became ruler when he died. ;D ;D ;D
-KidVid
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Are you sure about that?
It became a Senator of Rome (one of the better ones, I've been told), but I don't think it was made heir.
If I recall correctly, Caligula was killed in a state coup, and thus whomever was made new Emperor (Claudius, as IU recall, but haven't looked it up) would then be the new ruler. Those are the "rules" of the Coup.
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A coup has rules???? Wow, I really need to study up on history...
Gabriel
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hey, 25 million hungry french people can't be wrong...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Why not???
Gabriel
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Caligula was assassinated leaving the Pretorean Guard jobless. It was they IIRC who installed the nearest member of the Imperial family as Emperor in an effort to ensure job security. That was whom they called Claudius the Idiot. He turned out smarter than that though. He was followed by Nero the last of Augustus' immediate family to rule.
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it is sometimes better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Wow... the things you learn in a Pub...
-Kid Vid
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Zone, Goddess of History (Channle) ;)
Gabriel
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The history channel is for crap most of the time. Their research is slanted and/or shoddy more often than not. I'm a history snob ;)
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i watch the discovery channel.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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The history channel is for crap most of the time. Their research is slanted and/or shoddy more often than not. I'm a history snob ;)
Then what would you recomend as a good historical source for general historical interest???
Gabriel
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signing up for an archeological dig.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Achaeological dig? Been there, done that. But if you don't know what you're looking at its all a bunch of muddy scraps. No, a good source for for general historical interest as asked by Gabe can be found in this one building...a library I believe its called. It's full of these paper things called books! If one can read, the books impart information! It's amazing!
;D
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ahh.. and the bias of someone who writes books is much better than the bias of someone that makes tv shows for the history channel...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Achaeological dig? Been there, done that. But if you don't know what you're looking at its all a bunch of muddy scraps. No, a good source for for general historical interest as asked by Gabe can be found in this one building...a library I believe its called. It's full of these paper things called books! If one can read, the books impart information! It's amazing!
;D
Smart hoop. By the way, have you ever read a book called "In the Country of the Blind"? It's about a society of people who have been applying mathmatical principals to histpry, and find out that by using statistical analysis they can actually predict the coure of history and change it. It's pretty interesting so far, but I'm not done yet. Still, you might enjoy it, Zone.
Gabriel
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History was only written by the victors.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Which begs the question, just how acurate can any history truely be? All history would be filtered through the experiences of the historan and the society he lived in at the time. Therefore, every scrap of recorded histroy is suspect, especially the further back you go.
Gabriel
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yup. zactly.
example: we all know what rotten bastards the germans were in WWII, their war crimes are well documented, their leader's mental instabilities were the highlight of almost every history class ever taught at american highschools.
but, the american war crimes are oddly quieted... we don't hear about the prison camps where we put our resident german and japanese citizens... no heroic stories have made their way into prime time allong side of 'hogan's heros' about their attempts at life inside the camp, escape attempts, and people who were able to flee persicution by hideing in neighbor's garages and moveing to canada to live alone in the woods like a hermit.
we also hear all the time about how terrible the soviet union is doing. how their country is in shambles, run by gangsters and druglords. we don't hear as much about how the gangsters and druglords here influence our legistation. what political powers have the power of the local H union behind them...
to the victor goes the spoils...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Sad, isn't it???
Gabriel
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*shrug* no real reason to be sad about it. world has been that way sence man has been walking on it...
it would be like feeling sad because the world is round...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, the advent of the internet (the media the gov't has trouble regulating but desperately wants to) has brought about "new history." Of course, this history is also biased so its hard to find credibility. At the same time it's created a weird group of people who only believe what they've read. Like the people who think that Jesus was white or a Christian et al.
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4 out of 5 internet statistics are made up.
including this one.
-RuskiFace teh Pirate
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"He is the first nonhuman elected to the office in either U.S., Canadian, or UCAS history."
HAHAHAHHAA... I think that might qualify as WORLD history... unless you count Caligula's horse, who techincally became ruler when he died. ;D ;D ;D
-KidVid
Someone probably need to explain the concept of election to Kid ;D
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Indeed.
And most of you have already pointed out why Gabe's question is miss-informed. You don't read just one book of history. You read several, by different authors. Preferbly authors from several countries.
Then you move on to archeological evidence, if you can get it. Eyewitness accounts (if they exist, some compilations do) can be good, but one should always remember that very few of them are made by trained observers, and
that eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable.
And then you might be able to get an idea.
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History was written by the literate. Not always the same as the victors. Greeks were writing during the Roman period. Cantonese (or was it Haklo?) under the Manchu. Most reputible modern historians try to be as objective as possible and use as many primary sources as possible. None are shooting for ratings that I know of.
Thanks for the reccomendation Gabe. I'll put it on my list...
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Not all of the educated were reputable, however. And in those days, education was hard to come by.
But getting info from more than one source is always a good idea, if you can manage it.
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I read three different version of the daily paper, just so I can get facts.
Although the Wall Street Journal does have a severe lead when it comes to facts and not opinion and hype. Of course, they usually fact check everything before they print it, so less newsworthy papers have it first... but it's a trade-off.
Most history, like most news, is just opinion backed up with statistics. (and sometimes they even get scary and use facts) Specifically in our day and age, news panders more and more to specific demographics, so there's a magazine for black college democrats (how that racist Bush is trying to reinstate the Klan), another for gay democrats (how the religious conservative minority is trying to crush us under thier heel), another for republicans over 50 (how the bush administration is trying to return the US to its glory days and save social security) and yet another for young republicans (why the left isn't right. also in this issue: how to find and marry a stay-at-home mom)
And as scary as it may be, I can't see a way to change that.
-Kid Vid
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*shrug* i have found that world history has limited use in my life.
knowing about the romans may be fun, but seeing as how time travel isn't going to happen to me (probibly, i'm just guessing here) and takeing the time to learn roman, and german, and greek, and chinese, to see what everyone really thought of cesar seems like kinda a waste of time.
the history channel version is just as interesting, and opinionated, and wrong as any other source of information i could find, and it takes a hell of a lot less time to enjoy.
and, to top it off, i feel that because i watch the history chanel about roman times, instead of watching opera talk about how she's helping homeless people deal with their feelings of grief, that i'm an 'information guy who's interested in the facts.'
but in reality, i'm still a boob sittin on the couch, and the information i get, i'm probibly not going to use in this life time.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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My Gripe with the History Channel is that they use the words "was probably" a whole lot. They never say "There's no evidence proving this, so we're just guessing and hope our demographic likes it"
Anyone notice that Discovery Channel is turning into "Chopper Channel?" I mean, motorcycles are cool, but what's the rub?
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Hey, i like Monster Garage!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah? Well Monster Garage is zany. But that American Chopper show and "Great Biker Build-off" are those one's that grate on my nerves because how many flash paint-jobs and spinners can you show off before it becomes old hat? I guess I'm just not a motorcycle guy.
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YOu know, I would love to have won that contest they had on American Chopper where they would build you a bike you asked them for. I have been wanting to have Tetsuo's bike from Akira made for YEARS!!! Of course, they would probably have been pissed when I wanted a modified crotch-rocket instead of a chromed- out hog. But hey, who cares?
Gabriel
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*shrug* well, i'm into bikes, but i like riding them more than i like looking at them...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, but that would be damn cool to have the Akira bike.
Gabriel
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actually, i never really liked the way it bent in the middle...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I have a character from NAN who drives one of these:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/Iola/ind_mo.jpg)
- history and motorcycles all in one post
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i dunno... i think that indian and harley davidson are pretty close style wise... personally i'd go for a Triumph
(http://www.triumphnz.co.nz/rocket3/r3_4_1024x768.jpg)
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Give me a Harley Softail any day!
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carefull,... comments about 'soft-tales' don't go over too well with this crowd sometimes...
-RuskiFace teh Pirate
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Whazzat s'poseda mean?!
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Well, let's just say that if you talk about how much you like soft-tails, that gabe may be tracking down your contact information and giving you a 'personal' visit, and by 'personal' i mean 'gross'
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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and by 'gross' I mean both 'disgusting' and '144 times'
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ahh... i see you've met gabe...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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No. Remember the picture you sent me?
Forgot huh?
Well, I guess something THAT horrifying is easily forgettable... but did you have to pose with him? I mean... YARF.
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Oh THAT picture... i sent that to you?... hmmm... well, i know the picture, but i don't recall sending it to you.
and that HIM, is actually a HER, and by HER, i mean Gabe's Mom.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
(and that thing she's holding, i know it dosnt' look like it, but it's suppose to be a home-made loaf of bread she baked.)
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your pic, though cool, is messing with my screen Ruski. And you missed the joke I think. My character from the NAN rides an Indian. It played funny in game :)
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sory, i'll see if i can crop it and re-host it. (as of now, i'm stealing it from some other guy...)
and i got the INDIAN / NAN refrence... so an indian on an indian... but i'm very much into motorcycles, so i figured while we were compairing bikes, i could put my 2Y in about that.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
(i only LOOK dense...)
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One might think, but...
Now on to history: What the FRAG were the Euro-wars all about, again? I've never read one good explanation. But then again, I don't have Shadows of Europe.
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Resources.
and a couple of reactors went down in the process.
making it so everyone had to live in bubble city.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Everyone?
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Not even close. See, Ruski didn't read SoE either, so he is going on 2nd Edition information. The Eurowars had a few different reasons for starting up. It gets complicated and I am not getting into it right now. But suffice it to say I didn't come across one reference to a "bubble city" in my reading of that book. Of course, I only got half-way across the continent. That is some DRY reading. I do know that there is an area called the SOX that is one of the most toxic places on the planet. Not a nice place to visit. I would suggest reading SoE if you can get it. Just Dl the thing if you're too cheap to buy it. :ruski:
Gabriel
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SOX?
that's in germany, right?
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i'm almost posative that (at least in the 2nd ed. sourcebook for london (that i read)) that there was something about 'bubble cities' like in the 'spain' area or something...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
(i also seem to recall that the bubble on the city's sucked, and were broken as often as not, and everyone inside walked arround with resperators 'just in case')
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Makes you wonder if just hiding out in the NAN as an illegal alien is better...
Toxic Hellhole with constant fear of poisoning, cancer, and terrorism?
or
Brilliant Wildlands with constant fear of being eaten or thrown in prison?
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i'll take my poison, cancer, and terrorism.
i'll be near a hospital to take out the cancer.
i'd be the one that's a terrorist
and poison? how many people here smoke? or have bad habbits of the like? addicted to caffeen? yea, me too. you are just as likely to get poisened by a giant snake than the back end of 300,000 ford americars that didn't pass their emissions tests.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Give me the paracritters any day. That way, I could write novels and develop a serial killer sub-personality and use it to live out the horror stories in my writing!
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hmm... you must have a better way to deal with critters than me.
my way makes me run out of ammo if there are a lot of them.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Depends on what Paracritters they are... I usually use Awakened Dogbane to kill those Barghests and other Canine paranimals. Some Awakened Catnip to get all the Talis cats to become bosom buddies et al.
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so, you walk arround with all thoes volitile pharmasuticals on you at all times?
well, i guess i do carry arround a lot of computer programs,... if that's your thing...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Did I mention that I have a rating 6 in Parabotany? Didn't think so... None of these are pharmaceutical, as a matter of fact, I know grow some Awakened plants that are much better than most Pharms around.
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cool! you are my new knoledge hookup for exotic drug knoledge!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Here's a new rare flower on the some of the volcanic hotspots on Mt. Rainier. Apparently a SURGED variety of the flower Navarretia leucocephala known as the Least Navarretia, the new form Navarretia leucocephala novo is the awakened variety known as the the Inferno Navarettia. Inferno Navarettia have developed an almost kind of dependance on the fiery lavaflows in some of the most hostile calderas in most of the Western half of North America. These plants have developed a natural immunity to the effects of fire and don't appear to require water at all to survive, a phenomenon that baffles botanists the world around. As one might actually notice, exposure to large amounts of water causes these flowers to wither and die. It's also been noticed that when an Inferno Navarretia dies from other causes it becomes immediately flammable.
Here's the trick I've discovered from this. The Inferno Navarretia is combustible when it dies but it only requires raw mana and heat in order to sustain itself (some connection to the background count produced by the lavafields I've yet to discover) However, when the plant is culled it may be preserved and the use of Metamagic Endoetherealism to have the plant retain it's essence. When ground and then smoked, the flower actually provides the user with the Critter Power Immunity to Fire and Heat.
The Endoetherealism technique is essentially the same that the Anasazi have been using for ages and has recently been discovered by Pueblo parapsychologists. Essentially, Endoetherealism or EndoEther, preserves the essence by implying creative force to sustain the objects natural aura or essence. However, EndoEther does not last long, and substances created in this manner lose their effect quickly. This technique is also known to be a strong resemblance to the metamagics used in creating a Cyberzombie, but it's effects are less drastic. (and far less draining) The effect of which allows a person to uptake the particular attributes of an Awakened form into itself. EndoEth can also be used in more sinister ways involving rituals. For example, EndoEth can allow the consumption of Ghoul Eyes to cause temporary blindness and uncontrolled astral percetion (however, I wouldn't recommend eating ghoul flesh for risk of catching HMHVV) The effects of these Awakened compounds are dependant on the subject's harmony with nature. Meaning that heavily cybered individuals experience less of an effect. The use of Endoetherealism requires a preparation technique in order to contain the spirit. This skill can be anything creative, cooking, tea-making, chemistry (the actual extracted chemicals have no affect on the magical aura, which is temporarily stored in the chemicals extracted) or Alchemy.
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makes me happy that half my soul is missing already.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I think Soul is a bit of misnomer. More like Life force, you know, since your soul is made up of your mental attributes+skills which is powered by your essence. As long as your soul stays in your body, you don't have a lot to worry about.
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Hmm... my soul does seem to be spending a lot of time in the trix as is...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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You don't even want to know where my soul has been hanging out.
Gabriel (Weren't we talking about domes and the SOX????)
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so yea, anyone else rember the domes?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I do think there was something in the original London Sourcebook, but I think the idea has been kind of phased out in the novels and other source material. And I think the SOX is in the Allied German States. But to be honest, that entire area is so damn generic between the member countries that I find it really hard to remember. I doubt it's like that in RL, but in SOE, they only have so much space, and the diversity just doesn't show.
Gabriel
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hmm... well shucks. here i had this nice vision of what it was like there, only to find out that it's totally wrong.
oh well. could be worse.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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What was your vision???
Gabriel
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everyone living inside the domes, travel outside the domes is almost unheard of... and smuggeling stuff into and out of them is a good way to make a living...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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There are domes, but those are in some of the Toxic zones all over Europe. There are some in the UK, if I recall (only Europe book I have is the London Sourcebook)
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aparently they cleaned up the place and phased some of them out.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Just stay out of the North Sea, 'sall I got to say.
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That's what Arcoblocks are for. Think partially submerged archology and you have an arcoblock. They have several around the North Sea, and I'm thinking they have taken to place of the hackneyed dome concept.
Gabriel
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well all of the big D's will for atlantis researsh should count for something.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Right!
Everyone knows the Theran empire was Atlantis. I doubt even the Atlantean Foundation knows that...
HA! Fraggin' HA!
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LOL
so, why is the big D so interested in atlantis, after he's dead?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Probably because it was the most magically advanced nation of its time? Because it's demise is a good lesson in why blood magic is a Bad Thing® Because it tells you what happens to Elven nations when they get too hoighty toighty?
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BEcause he wanted to be sure they were all dead, with no survivors?
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Right!
Everyone knows the Theran empire was Atlantis. I doubt even the Atlantean Foundation knows that...
HA! Fraggin' HA!
:::grumble grumble grumble:::
ShadowDawn here we come...
Gabriel
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About domes - IIRC the London dome fell apart leaving only the ribs. There was a street gang called the Cage Boys who spent their time swinging about the skeleton of the dome or as they called it the cage. It is probably in the source book but I don't recall where I read that for sure
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Ok, now I am curious. Who has the paydata on the London Dome?? As in who built it, when did they build it, why did it fall apart??
Gabriel
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the goverment built it to protect the people from the polution of the toxic zones, and it fell apart because shadowrunners and eco terrorists kept blowing the thing up so much that it was pointless to try to keep it running, so they gave up, and got a bulk discounts on gasmasks and chemsuits.
-RuskIFace the Pirate
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Really? Is that canon or just your take on it? I mean, it sounds good, but I'm just wondering if that was from 1st edition.
Gabriel
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That'd be canon. Check the London Sourcebook.
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yea, that's my only source for that info.
haven't seen anyplace else talk about the domes.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, the UK got pretty fragged during the Resource Rush, let's say that much.
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should have gone electric sooner, ended up mostly going there anyways.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I think it has more to do with the UK's "Crap, the House of Lords is our god" policy that basically scragged their environment for the sake of a few pounds.
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This was the Resoucre Rush! EVERY government had that same mentality. There's a reason most major cities on the gllobe have electric cars and GridGuide. There's a reason we have to eat krill fillers and soy in all of our food. Gotta love our brave new world.
Gabriel
PS - Any other cities do the "dome thing"?????
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i know there are the underwater cities that were attempting to do the same thing,... only with keeping water out instead of poluted air and fallout...
wasn't there a failed experament like that in the land down under? they were trying to protect themselves from manastorms or something... anyways, either they didn't get it up in time, or it didn't work... one of the two.
i think it's one of the 'lost cities' that shows up from time to time.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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That depends on how good you are at what you do... *sharpens his cyberspurs*
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well, i'm sure that your sharpening cyberspurs ability is good enough to get you a 9-5 job at any of thoes places in the mall that sell pocket knives, however i was thinking more about the ability to find a missing city.
-RuskiFace teh Pirate
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I think I crossed threads somewhere... Anyhow, it would have to be a city on the coast (since in Oz there's very few if any interior cities)
Didn't Yametetsu develop a fully functioning Aquacology? Or was it someone else?
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well, it originally was on the cost, but it got hit by a manastorm, and has appeared in the middle of the outback several times, although always in diffrent locations.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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REALLY???? Could you get me the references for that?? That soundcs really wiz. As for Yamatetsu, check out the novel Shadowboxer, it has a fully funtcional underwater facility, although I forget who ran it. That novel is what happens when you take the games you've played and try to make a book out of them. Kind of strange. But it does show the difference between a rigger and a decker quite well.
Gabriel
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Gabe's gonna hate me for this, but that City you're talking about sounds a lot like Parlainth from Earthdawn... there's also a city in Australia called Perth... hrm...
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no, Perth is still there. it's a diffrent city though... i forget it's name though... the book i got it from? errr... it's ... uh... i can almost picture the cover...
nope. no idea. sory. *shrug* but take it how it is and run with it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Perth is still Perth in every reference to Oz in Shadowrun, including Target: Awakened Lands and the Second book of the Secrets of Power trilogy.
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Eh, it was a guess.
Regardless, Parlainth was a city that attempted to escape the Horrors by transporting itself to a distant metaplane or rather a metaplane between metaplanes. Problem was, as spirits, Horrors could go to metaplanes easier than on the physical plane. So the city was basically slaughtered and the ruins constantly shift in and out of reality.
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Gabe's gonna hate me for this, but that City you're talking about sounds a lot like Parlainth from Earthdawn... there's also a city in Australia called Perth... hrm...
You know, you are at -1 karma, so I won't smite you for that. ;) Seriously though, does anyone have any clue which city Ruski is talking about???? It sounds wiz. If not, no biggy.
Gabriel
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perhaps it was a hacked up version of the story of his city i read somewhere... *shrug*
it's whiz enough though, you could just make up your own stats to put into a game.
(LOL Fanpro wouldn't give any hard numbers for it anyways)
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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So... Ruski, what kind of Stats do cities have again?
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Actually, if I was going to pick a city in Australia to do that to, it would be Adeliade or Darwin. Both are still more "costal" than anything, but are more to the interior of the continent.
I think it's Darwin they're talking about, because Darwin has issues even in our day and age- much more in SR world.
I'll have to get that book back from my brother and read over it.
-Kid Vid
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Actually, if I was going to pick a city in Australia to do that to, it would be Adeliade or Darwin. Both are still more "costal" than anything, but are more to the interior of the continent.
I have no clue what you mean by that. Both cities you mention are right on the coastline. The only non-coastal big(gish) scity in Oz is Alice Springs, which is prett much right in the center of the continent. It is also mentioned in Shadowrun canon as being still acive as a city.
I think it's Darwin they're talking about, because Darwin has issues even in our day and age- much more in SR world.
What issues do you think Darwin has in our day-and-age?
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Trust the man. he lived in australia for two years.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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And I was born here, and live here now, and have resided in both the cities he named. Who you going to believe?
Of course, you could just look at a map to see that both are coastal cities.
Outside of a cyclone in the '70's, Darwin doesn't really have much in the way of problems, and is, in fact, one of my favotire cities in Australia.
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*shrug* bouth of you probibly.
but it'll be like me standing between two scientests discussing cloneing, i'm not going to get much out of the conversation, i never been there, or even heard of the cities before right now.
-RuskIFace the Pirate
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As I said, I can back up my claim about Adelaide and Darwin being right on the coast with any map of Australia.
As to his assertions about problems in Darwin, I'm not sure what he implying. That is why I asked for clarification.
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*shrug* do they have a mongoose overpopulaton problem or something?
or just the general strife that happens when people who don't like each other have to live in a close geological area?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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You know, Australia is almost never in the news... perhaps they've got the world under their thumb...
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well, they are never in MY news, but i don't even watch american news, and i live here. so the chances of something happening over there and me hearing about it over here, are pretty slim.
-RuskiFace teh Pirate
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Depends on what you define as "American News" You've got a couple of choices: MSNBC (Rich people news) FOX News (Right-wing mouthpiece news) CNN (Gov't Propaganda) and Network News (Left-wing Heartstring News)
Just ask Ted Turner... He practically owns American Media...
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Uh... how about i watch Politically Incorrect with Bill Marr for 10 minutes before i turn it off kuz i don't get any of the jokes.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Personally, I'm just getting a kick out of Fortune defending his entire continent. ;)
Gabriel
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Err... Ruski, Politically Incorrect was cancelled like... a year ago. He's got a new one on HBO called "Real Time, with Bill Maher." Same ol' jokes though. Some of em are funny. Others, not...
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Ahh... well, there you go. a perfect example of how much news i watch.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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DO you vote??? IF so, you should probably watch it a bit more. ;)
Gabriel
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LOL Yea i vote.
and the most awsome part of that is, that my vote counts for exactly the same as someone who actually researches everything and has an opinion.
-RuskiFace the Priate
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SO you are celebratig the fact that you are making an un-informed choice that effects the entire globe? Now I have no illusions about how much my vote counts, but I do try to make an educated judgement.
Gabriel
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Yea, i'm mostly only joking.
i do try to make an informed decision, but it's quite confusing sometimes.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I've heard of some serious social problems in Darwin- the whole aboriginal defemation thing... I mean, I saw how people treated Aboriginees in Sydney, and that's not even "the sticks".
Seriously, I love Australia, but it'd give the south a run for it's money on the racist ticket.
I seem to remember something in the books about aboriginee tribes wiping out Darwin with a manastorm, or something like that. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
-Kid Vid
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Just ask Ted Turner... He practically owns American Media...
Well, him and Rupert Murdoch (who incidently is an Australian ;D).
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Personally, I'm just getting a kick out of Fortune defending his entire continent.
I'm just trying to clear up any misconceptions. As I said, the two cities that were mentioned as not being coastal cities are in fact, right on the damn coast in both cases.
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I've heard of some serious social problems in Darwin- the whole aboriginal defemation thing... I mean, I saw how people treated Aboriginees in Sydney, and that's not even "the sticks".
Seriously, I love Australia, but it'd give the south a run for it's money on the racist ticket.
Mostly racist from the other point of view. people bend over backwards to accomodate the aboriginals, and they do nothing but bitch and whine for even more, screaming discrimination if anyone even questions their claims.
I seem to remember something in the books about aboriginee tribes wiping out Darwin with a manastorm, or something like that. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
That's news to me. In Target: Awakened Lands, Darwin is listed as a major port rivalling Perth in size (as it's the closest port to Asia), and also a major center for smuggling operations. It's described as a high-tech city of 1,000,000 people (which is 10 times its current population), and is the most diverse city in Oz, as far as cosmopolitan makeup is concerned. It is also host to a large part of Oz's military, protecting the continent from increasing Indonesian hostility.
I don't know where you got your info on the Manastorm.
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Probably the same place he gets all of his information, lots and lot of pain medications. ;)
Gabriel
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i don't think he's had any pain medication sense that last concussion he got following me over a jump on a bike...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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What city was it, then? Alice Springs?
I know they're having problems with manastorms eating up the westies (western suburds of Sydney), but not one particularly like the Westies, so it's not a big problem yet. ;D
-Kid Vid
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what's a westey?
-RuskiFace teh pirate
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Apparently it's a suburd, some sort of strange creature that lives in the outback?
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Sydney has a harbor on the east side of the city, so all of the suburbs that AREN'T Sydney are west of the city itself.
So if you're from the "Westies", than you're one of those people who's too poor to afford to live where you work... which is everyone but the richest.
Of course, the further you went west, the poorer and poorer people got. Right around Mt. Druitt, there's a brothel on every other corner, (the have to fit pubs in there SOMEWHERE) there is graffitti everywhere, and it depressingly reminded me of Riverside.
*sighs* I didn't know it was a hole until I lived here!
Seriously, everyone was suprised because I wasn't afraid of the gangs there... I mean, ten kids with attitudes aren't a gang. A bunch of kids with knives, crobars, and guns are a gang. And usually they kill peoples. Not the ones who terrorize the food court.
But people looked at me a little different when I would say it reminded me of home. ;D ;D ;D
-Kid Vid
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now shouldnt posion anwser this after all its his backyard
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You know, Australia is a big place...
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You know, Australia is a big place...
Yes it is. Bigger than continental US (just), in fact.
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Too bad most of it's a dry rock...
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Most of the time, yes. At certain times though, Oz is home to the biggest inland sea (technically a lake because it lacks salt) in the world. You'd be surprised by the outback. It isn't as lifeless as you might think.
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Is this before or after you get eaten by a Behemoth?
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Technically, the outback has as much (maybe slightly less) life than the american southwest/northern mexico.
Mid-mexico starts to get tropical, and southern mexico is... well, central america.
-Kid Vid
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I wonder why more isn't done with the land out there?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
(over population my foot!)
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You mean like the huge-ass ranches (called stations), some of which are bigger than some of the States in America?
There are, of course, a lot of areas that are pretty barren and won't sustain much in the way of livestock and/or plants, but they are basically equivalent to places like the badlands in the southwest of America.
The entire population of Oz is around 20 million, centered mostly around the coastal areas. Inland is mostly farming, and as I said, those farms tend to be rather huge, and don't really take all that many people to maintain.
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so is there unclaimed land that i could go stick a flag in?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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No, but you can squat there.
Reminds me of that episode of Family Guy where they discover that their plot of land isn't owned by the United States so Peter makes his own country.
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does he get invaded?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Sort of, they cut off his electricity and water, so he becomes a Third World country, so he has a party and invites Ayatollah Khomeni, Saddam Hussein, Fidel Castro, and Osama bin Laden over for a party.
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You mean like the huge-ass ranches (called stations), some of which are bigger than some of the States in America?
There are, of course, a lot of areas that are pretty barren and won't sustain much in the way of livestock and/or plants, but they are basically equivalent to places like the badlands in the southwest of America.
The entire population of Oz is around 20 million, centered mostly around the coastal areas. Inland is mostly farming, and as I said, those farms tend to be rather huge, and don't really take all that many people to maintain.
Sounds to me like it would be ideal for corporate take-over. Of course the mana-storms put that idea on hold pretty securly. But imagine if you could, for lack of a bettter term, terraform the inland area of Australia. You could big canals and irrigation channels, add desalination (sp) plants to take care of the sea-salt, and carve our large areas for standing lakes. The water table would begin to shift and growing would be considerably easier, thus "greening" the area. The greener it get, the more trees you have, which in turn helps to cool the area and begins to change weather patterns in a way that adds more water to the area overall. Of course, since I know nothing about geology, there may very well be considerations with soil/rock in the areas that simply won't allow large watter build-up on the surface or subsurface. Still, settling Australia could be done in the course of a few decades or a century. The big question is, "Who would foot the bill and why?"
Gabriel
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Aztechnology West, man!
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Actually, there are several projects to tame the problems of inner-Aussie. Most of the projects fail because of manastorms, which it would appear aren't as random as previously believed.
I know of at least one megacorp who's trying to deal with/overpower the Aboriginals to get a foothold.
-Kid Vid
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they going to hire matthew quiddiley?
LOL
would probibly be easyer to tame the outback than to tame the moon. they could set up some test 'biospheres' there like that old movie... whatever it was...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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biodome
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Ahh yes, with poly shore.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
didn't he die?
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Heh, yeah, Pauly Shore is dead... you know, like the movie that he directed about him dying...
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pauly shore was funny but adam sandler was better i liked when ps did the weasel..but adam sandler was my idol especially after i heard at a medium pace :P
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so, did you like 'Little Nickey'?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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that was my fav one :P
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Pauly Shore is not dead, he is crygenicly frozen so that he can be thawed out in the year 3000 for the aniversary showing of Jury Duty 2. Of course, this has nothing to do with Oz, but oh well.
Gabriel
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Terrifyingly, he's in the cryo tube next to Walt Disney...
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wait I thought walt was a child eating cyborg
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hahahaha that was funny hon :P
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So... since when do cyborgs eat? Something about children satisfy some component? :P
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on cyber robot chicken stats that walt disney was a cyber child eater Mercy and i sat and watched it lmao ;D
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Hmm... would explaine his love of animatronics...
-RuskIFace the Pirate
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So... since when do cyborgs eat? Something about children satisfy some component? :P
Um, I'm a cyborg and I eat all the time. What do you think a cyborg is, exactly??? You have the meat as well as the chrome, otherwise it would be just a robot. They don't need to eat, but I do. Gotta keep that meat red and pulsing, you know. ;)
Gabriel (the chrome-fisted elf)
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So, how much chrome do you have to add before being classified as a cyborg?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Actually, that's an interesting question. It could be argued that you're a cyborg once you have any implants, including the 90-years old granny with her artificial hip!
Or how about corrective eye surgery?
CP2020 played around with this question a bit (though not much more than SR).
However, given that cybernetics (IIRC) means the study of control-systems, I'd say that non-controlled implants, like the artificial hips, or bonelacing doesn't strictly speaking make you a cyborg. However any piece that's to do anything (at all!) on it's own, including moving, makes you a cyborg.
This means eyes, ears, arms, smartlinks and yes, certainly datajacks, chipjacks and their ilk.
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I was thinking something allong the lines of life support.
when the meat controlls the chrome, you are still human.
when the chrome is in charge, and the meat can't live without it, you are a cyborg.
so, an artificial heart would make you a cyborg, while a cyberlimb (that you can live without) would keep you human.
or, perhaps a percentage basis?
one cyber eye isn't enough to make you a cyborg, but if you pass the 3.0 essense mark, you are more metal than human...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I'm thinking that any implant that intereacts with another system would be considered integrated, and therefore cybernetic. For instance, a peg leg or steel rod in your arm would not make you a cyborg. A steel rod connected to servo motors and force-feedback controlls would make you a cyborg. Personally, I've got enough chrome to know it, but not really enough that I would cal myself a gillette.
Gabriel
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lmao cyborgs dont need food to eat and omg this is too funny :P
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so, if you have to eat food you are human, but if you have to plug yourself in every night you are a cyborg?
hmm... seems an odd distinction...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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cyborgs do need to eat they need the protins to maintaince the meat portions of thier bodys
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so you are sayin that cyborgs r half human half machine right well if thats that case then how does machines need food to eat and all this time i thought that gabe was an elf :-\
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I am an elf. I am a damn good-looking elf. I also have a cybernetic right arm, a datajack, beta-grade eyeballs, and a few other systems. That doesn't make me a robot. Cyborg just means a living organism that has mechanical components. Your typical decker is a cyborg, but then, so is your average corporate secretary. Things like datajakcs and cybernetic eyes/ears are so common that just about everyone could be considered a cyborg if you wanted to think about it. Of course the level of cybernetics is what most people tend to look at. A corporate secretary with a datajack and headware memory is not nearly as flashy as a cybercomando and therefore people tend not to think of her as a cyborg.
Gabriel
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LOL, but it's kinda funny when the 'all natural' elves from the tir come on up for a visit, calling everyone from the gutter trash razorboy with his first set of used cyberspurs, to the seven million newyen samauri with more chrome than a 1957 chevey 'a bunch of no good cyborgs'.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I of course also combine meat and mechanics and also claim elfness - not that it looms large in my life except when some one thinks elves can't fight and tries to jerk my chain. Having a remote access to a minigun becomes a very fun thing at that point...
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I'm thinking that any implant that intereacts with another system would be considered integrated, and therefore cybernetic. For instance, a peg leg or steel rod in your arm would not make you a cyborg. A steel rod connected to servo motors and force-feedback controlls would make you a cyborg.
Gabe, this is wht, the third time this year already, that we've agreed?
What's with you?!
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Hmm... remote access... i have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more of that in 4th edition.
if they are getting rid of decks, i wonder if they'll eliminate VCR's as well?
perhaps merge them with skillwires or something? *shrug*
i wonder what they'll do with skillwires?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I'm thinking that any implant that intereacts with another system would be considered integrated, and therefore cybernetic. For instance, a peg leg or steel rod in your arm would not make you a cyborg. A steel rod connected to servo motors and force-feedback controlls would make you a cyborg.
Gabe, this is wht, the third time this year already, that we've agreed?
What's with you?!
Yes, ROOTless, I'm scared too. :'(
Gabriel
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When Gabe makes sense, the whole world is frightened.
World: "Hey, isn't that the dirty crazy guy that no one understands?"
Rest of World: "Yea..."
World: "How come I understand him,... and he makes perfect sense?"
Rest of the World: "I don't know, but it's very scary!"
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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lmao agrees with Ruski gabe is the missin link the one that noone wants to get close too and just lets him talk cuz sometimes hes got cool things to say :o
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but what happens when the cool things he says start to make sense?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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A person becomes a cyborg when they forget that they are human or no longer consider themselves human. In essence, when you forget about your humanity, you suffer machine-like properties and illnesses. You ignore pain and have no conscience for the welfare of anything and become sociopathic. This is called "Cyberpsychosis" whereby having a lot of chrome that is clearly recognizable and alters your "natural" view of the world draws you ever closer to this phenomenon.
An artificial heart would not make you a cyborg as you rarely have to deal with the fact that your heart is cybernetic and not human. Whereas having your arm telescope into a wicked sword alters your perception making you more mechanical.
Most internal cyberware with no DNI has little impact on your humanity, whereas external or exotic body-altering and sense-altering cyber does.
Cyber-vision, Sense-rigs, Skillsofts, implant weapons, cyberlimbs and reaction enhancers have the ability to make you cyberpsychotic. Whereas blood-filters, cyber-organs, muscle replacements and cosmetic ware have little effect (of course, sleeping at night with your inhuman heart never skipping a beat may be unnerving)
The aspect of decorating your chrome is a coping mechanism for the debilitating effect on the user's humanity. It gives you a way to link your cybernetics to your personality, preserving your link to your psyche. Couselling is also an option.
In essence, being a cyborg is based on the threshold which defines you and the machine. A cyborg is a person who is controlled by the machine.
Examples of cyborgs: Robo-Cop and the Street Deacon
Johnny Mnemonic wasn't a cyborg but he was getting there.
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well we could all just sit and give him odd looks thinkin this dude finally makes sense and just let him have his moment...or we could run scared and all wonder when it will all stop...or we could ignore it and act like it just dont happen to him and hes had a brain fart... :P
-
Hmm... well, if 'Just Johnny' isn't a cyborg, then i'm not. he had nural overload creeping in from his upgrades...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Retread, we're not playing CP2020 in here...
-
But we could... and we may end up there if 4th edition sucks...
-RuskIFace the Pirate
-
True.
-
or GURPS... *shudder*
Glitterboy, here i come!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Or we could say frag the Crash and rewrite an alternate universe?
-
You could just keep playing 3rd Edition... I know a couple of people who were playing 2nd Edition D&D up until a few months ago... then they started having a REALLY hard time finding books they were missing in useable condition...
-Kid Vid
-
Well, for that matter, I could probably play AD&D 2nd ed for quite a while yet. After all, it's not like I'm going to need a lot of books that I don't already have...
-
and if your imagination can't make up something to fill the gaps, you really shouldn't be playing thease games anyways...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
True. Though as I recall, playing AD&D with just the PHB was a hazzle.
Much easier once you had a DMG too.
-
Hmm... yes, but the books other than that...
extra spellbooks, the fighters handbook... all that jive... weren't absolutly necessary to play the game...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Glitterboy, here i come!
Ugh. I hate fraggin' Rifts. It is the only RPG I've ever played that I couldn't make friends with.
My history question, however, is source books - has any one ever done a real focus on the near east?
-
Game system and time periode irrelevant?
-
I had to write a paper on them for my world history class... (History-2 was a slag for me )
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
What do you mean by "near east"? Not the middle east, I take it... Eastern Europe? Poland, Germany, Slavic Republic, Lithuania and all that?
Or... like New York east?
Hong Kong... aka "Far East"?
-Kid Vid
-
i think that's more like egypt.
mesopetania, and the like.
almost the middle east, but not quite.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
No, I don't care about time frames, and by near east I mean everything on that side of the Med over until you hit India's eastern boarder.
-
So, what do you want to know? the power shift from generation to generation? religious history? tatical problems? the spice trade?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Book titles, if they exist ;)
-
ahh... books about that area... let me go check my bibliography... it was pretty dry reading though...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Herodotus.
though ofcourse some of his info are a bit outdated ;)
-
Well, I read an RPG book called "Mythus" once, and it took place around the Mediterranean Sea in an alternate Earth called Ærth. The premise was basically a world where chemistry and science just didn't work right. Gunpowder was inert, gears didn't function properly. Electricity and conductivity were simply too chaotic for science to function properly.
The game was so horribly complicated (I was like 11 at the time, though) where characters had at least 6 stats, and 3 sub-catergories for each stat. Experience points were some oddball acronym called "STEEP" and there was a bevy of different classes and skills. You had quirks like Edges and Flaws and even your characters birth order determined their potency (if you were the 7th child you got like this huge bonus to your magic) Magic was called Heka (it's an egyptian term, same as mana) and Heka could be stored and found in almost anything: herbs, rocks, animals, etc. You could rob Heka from anything and place it into objects, the shape and material of the object determined how much Heka it could store: a pyramid, a pentacle, an ankh and so on. The make up even more so: Wood and stone moved up to metals and then finally Hekalite.
Most notably, the Moon had life on it and was hollow. It had a whole other set of rules for how physics worked etc.
But wait... you weren't asking about other games, you were asking about stuff in SR?
Erm... Don't think there's been much save a few snippets about Egypt and the Sahara. Might try Shadows of Europe or Target: Awakened Lands or Target: Wastelands.
-
Guess we'll have to write one ;)
-
Okay, you start.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Okay...
Awakened India
by Zone
We'll start out smaller than the whole region. You're turn.
-
India is a nice country. here is a picture!
(http://www.sweetmarias.com/india.gif)
there are many Places of intrest to visit in India.
(your turn.)
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
It was considered a bummer of monumental proportions when the entire Thar Desert was rendered in glass after a nuclear exchange with Pakistan.
-
Currently there is a tourist-trap set up there, where they let you wear radiation suits, and go walk out on the glass and look for radioactive remniants of the old age of technology.
(Beware of Toxic spirits)
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
>>>>>[First off, Ruski is a little off on his description, the entire desert wasn't rendered glass by the nuclear weapons. The craters where the nukes hit however, those are nasty. I've been there before... it's creepy... I assensed the place once, almost made me want to tear my astral hair out. Concurrently there is a strange sort of "spirit war" going on there. Several spontaneously manifest toxic spirits have formed "factions" that wage a constant war over the craters. The spirits however, dislike people in general and will stop fighting to wipe out some hapless metahumans.]<<<<<
Jasper the Old
-
>>>>>[Most magicians in India are Idol Worshippers, meaning they are similar to Shamans who follow a totem. Most specifically the idols that select them represent gods of the Hindu religion. "Gods" is a misnomer, however, as Hindu considers their religion infinite, but each face of "God" has a different name, giving birth to the belief that Hindu is polytheistic. However, there are exceptions. Many of the Awakened that grow up in the many corporate arcologies in Calcutta are raised to be Mages.
Awakened Hindu are often called "gurus" and their idols are all facets of creation and unmanifest reality (destruction) More often than not, a guru does not acquire or use hostile magic for the sake of killing, however like all magicians, they have their dark and unpleasant toxic sides. Many Guru learn Sanskrit as a centering technique as well as Yoga in it's various forms. There is a lot more to be said of gurus, but your best bet is to ask a guru.]<<<<<
Vshaitrya
-
I was just saying what i read on the brochure...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Toxic or Not? (http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/hindu/devot/aghoris.html)
-
let me check...
mumble.mumble.. "... Paid for by the Toxic Shamen foundation.."
uh... Toxic aparently.
-RuskiFace teh Pirate
-
It's also important to note that during recent troubles in indo-china, India fell back into it's traditional caste system, with three distinct castes of people.
>>>[Trust me, if you have to ask what caste you fall into,
it's the very bottom one.]<<<
-Vishnu's Cousin
-
Although there is an upper lower class (mostly made up of merchants) that do have some political power. all you gotta do to get into that lot is have over 1 Million Y in the bank...
or a fordged account that looks that way...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
>>>>>[Ruskiface doesn't know what he's talking about: The caste system works based on which branch of Hindu you follow, it's not a social "class". For example, the intelligentsia, called the Brahmin, are the brains and they're the ones who abstain from meat. Meanwhile the followers of Shiva are often in the military.
And, as per normal, there is always the lowest of the low, the Untouchable caste. These poor souls aren't given the dignity of being treated human. They get the worst jobs, if they can get them at all. Genetically, I believe the untouchable have been experiemented on through radiation or otherwise, as many of them exhibit physical deformities. I'm not talking Changelings here, either..]<<<<<
Ant-Lion
-
you typically have to do something bad to get into the lowest of the low. even tourists aren't untouchable.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
>>>>[Nope! These people are born this way. That's one of the nastier parts of a caste system. You're born that way, and you die that way, plain and simple. Granted, you can simply develop a technical skill and join one of the foreign megacorps. There are a huge number of corporations that developed from out-sourcing from the turn of the century. Most of the local corps use the caste system as well.]<<<<<
Bib
-
*takes a bow*
... dosn't know anything my ass...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
don't get me started on the Ji-toh, Incenary rites, and other traditions that can get you into the untouchable caste.
-
>>>>>[VITAS-3 hit India the hardest (Along with every other major disease) It's typical over-crowding and underdeveloped infrastructure along with all the ecological havoc that the Ghost Dance War caused the world over caused it some serious population control. Since then, the population has grown, but VITAS-3 still lingers around. If anyone is doing any running in India, I suggest you bring yourself several canisters of Zeta-Interferon, Anti-bac, and even Binder. Though no amount of Medtech is gonna let you survive a dip in the Ganges without some kind of illness.]<<<<<
Dope-Amine
-
heck, I wouldn't go swimming in seattle without half thoes imunizations... let alone 'dangerous' water...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
>>>>>[Surprisingly, the Ganges aren't toxic, like you might think. I'd wager it's because of the background count it's developed by all the people who use it. It's less of a natural domain and more of a domain of Man. Granted, I think it resents actual pollution like toxins and such. As a matter of fact, I think I've seen local gurus defend the river against several polluting corporations.]<<<<<
Liaji
-
>>[India is one of the few places where the megas actually fear public opinion. There's just too many damn people around to frag with, because when there's an uprising, you can hear it all the way over in the middle east. And you know it has to be loud to be heard above THAT racket.]<<
-UZIIIBoy
<gif.smiley>
-
Hey UZIII... didn't you work for one of thoes poluting megas?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
>>[That's between me and them... but yes.]<<
UZIIIBoy
-
>>>>>[For all you smugglers out there interested in smuggling something that's not guns, chips and telesma, you should note that India is loaded with dozens of rare spices that sell for a premium in places that are without them. Places like Imperial Japan or even the Athabaskan Council will buy your spices for ridiculous sums of money. Granted, you might not find a buyer in some of the more squalid areas. These spices are for the upper-crust]<<<<<
Captain Morgan "Yarr! *hic* YARR!"
-
You know the spice trade is what originally proved that the world was round...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
>>>>>[Well, I believe it was the rumour that there was a city made of solid gold that helped, no?]<<<<<
HELL-dorado!
-
nah, that helped the colinisation of said new found worlds, greed is of course always a driving factor, but it was the french that sponcered mr. columbus to go try to bypass the african route to the spice trade (that was trying to bypass the land route that was fraught with bandits and muslims)
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Indeed. Now if only they hadn't considered the Vikings barbarians, neh?
-
well, the vikings were pretty barbaric with how they went to 'other places' and didn't count the inhabitants there as human, and just looted and raped and plundered however they felt like...
oh wait... all the european nations did that too.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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yea, we ran the spanish out before too long, and the dutch got caught up in the frenzy of the slave trade, and didn't do much else for quite awhile.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
>>>>>[Hey, don't rag on the Spanish. They gave those damn Azzies what they had coming!]<<<<<
-CASper
-
VD?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Historically speaking any time a more advanced culture come in contact with a less advanced culture, the less advance culture can kiss its ass goodbye...which is why I'm dreading the day when some space faring race finds that stupid-ass voyager probe with a big gold invitation to come here and frag our planet six ways from Sunday.
-
That's assuming they'd want anything to do with our desease ridden carcases in the first place.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, several million tons of iron can make a whole lot of ships...
The question is: if aliens did come in the Shadowrun plotline, would they use magic too? Or would they use some weird "reverse background count" where our "clean" mana is actually a level 10 manawarp to them?
How about this. A super fusion engine is irresponisbly created so that the rating 10 manawarp it produces brings about a new kind of Nuclear Wraith that is created by the manastorms in the too powerful reactor.
How about some strange magical group devises a massive form of ritual posession that allows magicians to "possess" the Earth? Hrm... Perhaps that is the true motive of the Greatest Toxic spirit in the world? It poisons the earth so that its astral form weakens with Damage penalties?
-
Nah. Too mucg like GURPS Technomancer.
-
Sounds like Final Fantasy 7 to me :P
-
Lots of places have thoes 'cataclysmic' events shift everything.
Goblinization.
the Big D.
the Commet.
*shrug* it's all about the change.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I'd call "Toxics possessing the Earth" a little bit bigger than a "change."
Seems like Ritual Possession could be possible. Wonder how the rules would work...
-
suppose it would have to be a toxic dragon inorder to have enough mojo and resources to pull something like that off?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Toxic dragon, now that's an idea to work with.
-
that's a really scary idea...
who do you think would go toxic first?
Ghostwalker?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Nah, one of the German dragons is my bet. There are already stories aobut a toxic dragon in the SOX area of Europe. Think about JUST how bad something like that could get if it were to start using Winternight agents as pawns....
Gabriel
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ohh... that is some seriously bad mojo.
makes me glad i got an ocean of water between me and them... not that an ocean ever stopped a dragon...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Of cousre, since System Crash mentioned something about Winternight, maybe this scenario has already played out. I'd have to get he book, and right now with a new car note, a messed up bank account, and other unseamly things in my life, I don't think I will be sending the huyen.
Gabriel
(of course if anyone can get me the pdf, that's a different story. ;))
-
i'll check this weekend and see what i can find for you.
(what type of car did you get?)
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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'd be less worried about a Toxix dragon and more worried about a Corrupt Dragon. Echo that, I'd be more worried about the Free Spirit that the Corrupt Dragon makes a pact with...
-
yea, there are just all sorts of ways that can go wrong.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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if im not mistaken some countries and i dont know all i know that asia is doing it but they pay the women not to have children due to over poplulation :o
-
Yup. you can get a free 27" flatscreen TV if you turn yourself in to get your tubes tied.
guys only get a toaster-oven, but apaprently the goverment isn't as worried about them.
-RuskiFace the PIrate
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OUCH!
Gabriel
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well, if you are a batchlor, and you need to have your bread cooked...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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CHummer, there are better ways in this world to toast your bread, and that's a fact.
Gabriel
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LOL no doubt about that.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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nah, that helped the colinisation of said new found worlds, greed is of course always a driving factor, but it was the french that sponcered mr. columbus to go try to bypass the african route to the spice trade (that was trying to bypass the land route that was fraught with bandits and muslims)
-RuskiFace the Pirate
acturaly if I am not mistaken it was the spaniosh not the french isabla was the queen of spain not france the ship where all spanish named
-
not surpising considering most asia country are heavly male domanted socitys womeon are second class citizen
-
nah, that helped the colinisation of said new found worlds, greed is of course always a driving factor, but it was the french that sponcered mr. columbus to go try to bypass the african route to the spice trade (that was trying to bypass the land route that was fraught with bandits and muslims)
-RuskiFace the Pirate
acturaly if I am not mistaken it was the spaniosh not the french isabla was the queen of spain not france the ship where all spanish named
ANd Ruski gets schooled by Mercy.
Gabriel
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lol but also the women are paid not to have kids i dont remember how it was done but for the women to be fixed they got a yearly amount of money cuz of over population...where me and mercy stay at its the female cats that are taken away to be fixed not the males...and in foreign countries its the females that are fixed so that should tell ya something....well tells me its a cold cold world lmao and so not right ???
-
Yep, and watch with amazement as the growing male population creates a deficit and they experience sudden lack in births for when WW III rolls around...
Remember kiddies, the world ends with a war between a great Dragon and Eagle...
-
Well, that's what you get for listening to a guy who got a B in history. LOL
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Remember kiddies, the world ends with a war between a great Dragon and Eagle...
You mean House Marik and House Davion??? Isn't that the wrong game??? ;)
Gabriel
-
Perhaps it's something we have to look forward to ?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I fraggin' hope not. Battlemech and magic... :::shudder:::
Gabriel
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um from what been reading sr is getting that way
-
Well, we don't have giant mechs yet.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Ahem! Remember all those vehicles I designed? Just give them a body rating of 5 and increase their stats a bunch and voila: Giant Mechs!
-
point made only diffrance is size
-
And that is why I think I am going to have a problem with SR4: Too much fucking anime!!!!!!
Gabriel
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And that is why I think I am going to have a problem with SR4: Too much fraging anime!!!!!!
Funny, that was my problem with parts of SR3. SR4 seems to be stepping aways from that a little.
-
I certainly hope so. The great part about SR is that it always seems to make sense. The tech is advanced, but it's not stupid like Star Trek. Making a bunhc of hypertech drek would really kill the feel.
Gabriel
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Remember kiddies, the world ends with a war between a great Dragon and Eagle...
Eagle = USA
Dragon = China? Korea?
-
I don't know... Giant robots wouldn't probibly work very well. the current vehicle to vehicle or nautical combat systems break down a bit when ever I personally have tryed to use them.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
From R3 the biggest artho(something.. walker type) had a Body of 4 or 5 IIRC. I remember making some RoboCop-esq ED-209 units, but it was difficult because armor is limited by they body rating.. at least I think it was.
In BattleTech/Mechwarrior those mechs were anywhere from 20-100 tons and had nuclear reactors as engines. Kinda hard to do, but I think FASA originally envisioned the BattleTech universe as the far future of the Shadowrun universe. I remember seeing BattleTech technical manuals for the year 3053 (and SR2 was originally set in 2053)
-
a thousand years isn't as long as it use to be.
and Battle-Tech didn't have any elves did it?
they had the clan 'elementals', but they were just suped-up humans...
*shrug*
-RuskiFace the Pirate
although, in playing battle tech once, i did get fryed by the nuclear reactor a bit when my shielding got hit, and picked up the unique ability to regenerate by solar light. (and all my skin turned green)
-
LOL, um, I don't think that is in the B-Tech rules anywhere, Ruski. I think maybe you made that last part up. Oh, and B-Tech was never a roleplaying game. FASA saved that for Mechwarrior, which sucked.
Gabriel (Morgan Kell can suck my big fat guasse rifle)
-
Yeah BattleTech was tabletop mecha wargaming, like Warhammer 40k. Mechwarrior was the role-playing version of the game. I tried to get into it cuz I liked the whole mech thing.. but the rules kinda... well let's just say Gabe already said it ;)
-
From R3 the biggest artho(something.. walker type) had a Body of 4 or 5 IIRC. I remember making some RoboCop-esq ED-209 units, but it was difficult because armor is limited by they body rating.. at least I think it was.
Walker, extra-large Body 4.
-
Well, I did play the mechwarrior game. I was in HS at the time, and the group I was running with was in colledge, so I have no idea how many 'custom' rules they let fly by me. I was just learning the game at that point, and I've never found anyone else to try to run it sense. *shrug* it was alright... everything outside of the mech sucked; but all in all, i've played worse.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
I certainly hope so. The great part about SR is that it always seems to make sense. The tech is advanced, but it's not stupid like Star Trek. Making a bunhc of hypertech drek would really kill the feel.
Don't get me wrong. There is one thing that is totally impossible to reconcile in the way in which they are portrayed in SR4. That's Technomancers! Technomancers are the remains of the former Otaku, and other people now able to (non magically) manipulate (and transmit up to 400m???!!! :P :o) data without cyber, solely with their brains. I could accept that, if the explanation was that they were, in some way, awakened. But no! They are not supposed to be awakened, yet they are given a Resonance Attribute in place of Magic (which, coincidently, is affected by Essence just like Magic). Add to that the fact that Technomancers are specifically prohibited from being any (other) form of magician or adept.
I wish they'd just come out and say "Technomancers are Matrix Adepts", and be done with it.
-
I bet they are just trying to eliminate them from picking up other adept powers.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Fortune, I think the plot here has something to do with the nature of permeating the physical plane with an artificially created plane, the Matrix plane, and the naturally occuring sub-plane of Astral space. Think of it like three rooms in a row: Matrix | Physical | Astral
The physical plane provides the raw "thought" energy that forms vibrations on the other two. Think of it as an "Artificial Astral Plane." Magicians don't consider it magic because they cannot perceive it, that is all.
-
Ruski: That really isn't the case. No 'awakened' character can choose another Magic Quiality, but only Technomancers out of all the mundane character options are forbidden to take a Magic Quality.
They're Magic Adepts™ in my game! :P ;D
-
um I thought this was histrory not magic 101
-
Technomancers are now part of the official Shadowrun history. Personally, I think they should just be history, but that's beside the point. :P
-
lol
-
See, I always thought the Otaku idea sucked big troll balls anyway. Explain to me how someone can manipulate raw telecommunication data with his brain and I'll show you a three-legged dwarf. It makes no sense. The only way you could even approach this is the say that the world's TC net, or matrix, or whatever, is designed along the lines of human thought patterns, thus enabling the rare human to have such an intuitive feeel that he could potentialy manipulate the data with his naked brain. That is STUPID and was already addressed when SR1 became SR2 and the signal carrier went the way of the dodo, corporate ethics, and good governance.
If anyone from FanPro actually reads this BBS, please remember that PEOPLE FRAGGING HATE IT WHEN YOU REVISE HISTORY TO BRING BACK SOMETHING TAHT HAS ALREADY BEEN EDITED OUT!!!!!!! WHY THE FRAG ARE YOU GOING BACK TO 1ST EDITION CONCEPTS IN A 4TH EDITION PRINTING?????? >:( :gabe:
Gabriel
-
Yea, I was kinda hoping they'd all die out.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
i'll just keep them as NPC status in my games.
-
Ruski: That really isn't the case. No 'awakened' character can choose another Magic Quiality, but only Technomancers out of all the mundane character options are forbidden to take a Magic Quality.
They're Magic Adepts™ in my game! :P ;D
seconded.
-
Umm. The deliberate ability to use a Hacking Pool requires Hot ASIST interface. Under this precept, a flexible mind could manipulate data far better than any "learned" indvidual. Especially given the icon-based nature of the Matrix. Now as for Technomancers, it's pure silliness, as I don't even agree with the WMI in the first place.
Fortune, what's the rationale on the WMI and why the RAS override isn't needed anymore?
-
Ruski: That really isn't the case. No 'awakened' character can choose another Magic Quality, but only Technomancers out of all the mundane character options are forbidden to take a Magic Quality.
They're Magic Adepts™ in my game! :P ;D
seconded.
Funny! I meant to type Matrix Adepts. ;D
-
Fortune, what's the rationale on the WMI and why the RAS override isn't needed anymore?
I have to admit, a lot of that stuff is beyond me at the moment. I have only skimmed that chapter, but I'll give you a brief synopsys of what I know, and then you can either ask questions or read more on the subject at Dumpshock from people who truly do have a good grasp.
Basically, the WRI (or Wired Matrix Initiative), or Matrix 2.0, is all-pervasive in 2070 society. Think Minority Report on a wide, and sometimes even more invasive scale. The Commlink is the key to everything, being a combination cell phone, computer, camera, recorder, insert-anything-else-electronic-you-can-think-of. It contains your SIN information, and interacts with everything around it (like the retinal scans in Minority Report). You can 'hide' by turning your Commlink to 'hidden' (or even *gasp* 'off', but that attracts attention in certain areas. This is basically called Augmented Reality, or AR
Hackers (and Technomancers) can manipulate this AR, pretty much at will, with only a slight negative modifier to their real world actions. The closest analogy (and pretty much identical rules-wise in SR4) is to compare AR with Astral Perception.
The Astral Perception equivalent, and most familiar to SR3 players, is Virtual Reality, or VR. This is where the hacker 'leaves his body' and 'flies' through the electrons of the system.
Almost everything can be 'hacked' in SR4, including other people's Commlinks, and therefore everything hooked up to them (which is almost everything in 2070, including cyberware).
Anything and everything is 'tagged' with radio frequency 'tags', including clothes, guns. food, medicine, ammo, corp employees, etc, etc. Tags can be tracked! Of course, they can be destroyed, but they can be a nuicance at times, and a blessing at others.
-
now thats down right scary what runner in his right mind is going have one of thoose on a regular bases
or allow it to be link to thier cyber ware and the awaken forget it
-
Yeah, that sounds pretty damn stupid to me too. Is the comlink cybernetic??
Gbariel
-
well, just like in the current shadowrun, you can have a pocket-secertary, or a built in cyberware version of a cellphone with a sub-vocal mike.
and tracking tags RFID or otherwise, are allready out there. I have one in my keychain that unlocks my car IRL, not to menton the GPS identifier in my lo-jack system. cellphones all have them (if you remove them, they stop working)
they have them in the nicer watches so that they detur theft.
taking it one step further, is just a logical conclusion.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
So the WMI is basically a sub-plane to the material plane (like the Astral Plane) but it's wholey man-made and electronic?
-
Well, you can only put radios in so many things before they start to talk to each-other.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
See, I never think of it as a plane, just as the matrix overlaid on your other senses. But then, I always wondered why they never explained how AR wroked in Shadowrun. It has ALWAYS been there, what with cyberoptics and smartlinks and things like that. It was just never really explained very well.
Gabriel
-
I think it'll be cool to be able to 'hack' the street sam's smart link and throw off his aim to give the rest of the team a chance to get away from his cover-fire.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
That explains it better, the Matrix is overlaid on top of our reality.. kinda like an overhead transparancy?
But what about systems, hosts, and nodes? How do they exist now? Before the Matrix was entirely virtual right? Sure hosts and nodes were in physical locations, but you could get there from anywhere on the planet. So now do you need to be close enough to the host to access it wirelessly to hack it? Or can you still 'jack into' the matrix like before?
-
Oh, I bet you can swing yourself allong like tarzan from RF device to RF device... but get a long enough string, and a weak point in the middle could help you end up with dumpshock when you least expect it.
my understanding of the history is that the wired backbone of the matrix was destroyed. so, while you could still in theory create it, it's not as prevelant as it once was.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I think it will be MORE prevelent. With the advent of wireless matrix hosting, everyone is potentially conected via portable devices. Think of the cell phone revolution that has taken place as recently as 5 years ago. To put a bit of perspecitve on this, I will give an example. I graduated highschool in 1991. No one had cell phones then accept for wallstreet moguls. And even then, the things were as big as normal hand sets from hard-line phones. With the advent of better telecom systems, everyone ended up with a cell phone in about a decade. Now, just about everyone can access internet, media, or each other at the drop of a Aztechnology-Fashionable-Aluminum-Craniel-Accessory. The wireless tech put it in the hads of Joe Average and created a ubiquitous form of comunication.
That's the way the Wireless Matrix will affect Shadowrun. Now everyone is potentially on the matrix or jacked into the matrix. And if you have the AR overlay (and again they ALWAYS HAVE BUT NO ONE THOUGHT TO FRAGGING EXPLAIN THAT) then you can actually interact with the meat world while being jacked in at a lower level of matrix interaction.
The matrix is no more a plane than it ever was, and it certainly has physical hosts and nodes. It's just that it is so much more accessible now that it appears to be all pervasive.
Gabriel
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Funny! I meant to type Matrix Adepts. ;D
Even more funny: That's what I read.
-
How many of you have read the Cybergeneration game?
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Not I. How old is it??
Gabriel
-
So...
What happens when someone gets the brilliant idea of Hot Mike Jamming the whole network?
-
Not I. How old is it??
Ancient, spin off of Cyberpunk 2020. It had much the sort of virtuality described above. Also, it bombed hard.
-
Well, it's possible, but with the range of bands you'd have to hit, you'd need some serious juce... also, it'll make you a pretty easy to track down target... I don't know if i'd want that kind of attention on me.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, the kind that comes in milspec armor with weapons, foci, and spirits to match. OUCH!
Gabriel
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could set up a delayed EM bomb though... that would be handy... set the timer, and walk away, know that you'll have about 5 minutes before they find it and blow the crap out of it... (much less if you are in a corperate compound) give you a little window to do something sneekie.
of course, if they find the bug that's screaming, they'll be looking for you next, so you'd better be able to get done and get out inside the time frame.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Indeed, but I still don't get the "No hardwired systems" thing... I mean, a computer crash can't destroy millions of miles of fiberoptic cable, maybe the junction boxes but not the cables themselves. The augmented reality thing is just some game concession that collided with all the "guys in the office" ogling their new Wireless Network.
-
Not everything is wireless in SR4.
The crash didn't wipe out miles of optic cable. It destroyed the connections and routers, etc., through a combination of magically-enhanced nukes (courtesy of Winternight) and a PMSing Pax on a rampage. Not to mention Deus' small involvement. (I'm not too up on the whole wireless thing yet. I have Sytem Failure, but haven't read it thoroughly)
The WMI (Matrix 2.0) has been in the works in canon for over 6 years (Thanks Transys Neuronet) in books like the SotAs, SoE, SoNA, DotSW, and even more ... well before the latest wireless tech was widely available in real life.
-
My question is this, what was the time lapse between full matrix shutdown and the time when the matrix was restored? How many people were killed in the riots that woudl have taken place? How many people died in plane crashes and train wrecks? How many died in the nuclear strikes? Did Z-O fall out of orbit? Did all my porn get wiped out in my telecom??? Just think about how pervasive the matrix is in SR. It is in EVERYTHING. So when the system drops offline, even on a temporary basis, it literally effects the entire globe. I'm really curious about how this went down.
Gabriel
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My question is this ...
What follows consists of more than one question! :P
what was the time lapse between full matrix shutdown and the time when the matrix was restored?
I don't know. I haven't fully read up on that in either SR4 or System Failure yet. I do know that the WMI (Matrix 2.0) was up and running in various locations around the world before the crash. The implimentation of the new system was funded by a merger between a cashed-up Novotech, Erika (Ericson/Nokia AA), and Transys Neuronet (the biggest AA), alnong with some help from Pueblo and, obviously, the Corp Court. Incidently, NeoNET (the AAA that resulted from the merger) is now the third biggest AAA, behind S-K and Aztechnology (in that order).
How many people were killed in the riots that woudl have taken place? How many people died in plane crashes and train wrecks? How many died in the nuclear strikes?
Again, I don't know ... yet! There was anarchy in various places around the world for a short time, and here may still be some spots that resist being brought under control. Not all of the nukes went off, but enough did. All in all, it wouldn't have been pretty.
Did Z-O fall out of orbit?
No. The backbone of the Matrix (the data and such) didn't crash. As far as I know, it was the hardware stuff like transponders that fried out. Nothing that would affect Z-O, or any secure location really.
Did all my porn get wiped out in my telecom???
Not unless you live(d) within range of one of the EMP strikes, although your ability to amass more has been severely curtailed for the time being.
Just think about how pervasive the matrix is in SR. It is in EVERYTHING. So when the system drops offline, even on a temporary basis, it literally effects the entire globe. I'm really curious about how this went down.
As I said, it probably wasn't pretty at all. You really should check out System Failure. It's only available on PDF for the moment, but (unfortunately) it, like the SR4 core book, has already show up on the P2p networks.
-
It's sad that stealing this stuff off the 'Trix is the only way to get ahold of it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
And trust me, I have been looking for that book, too. I knew about the Wireless Matrix Initiative from the other books, but I wasn't aware that any of it had come online. I guess in order to keep this within the bounds of possebiity, you would have HAD to have had some major places that were already WMI compatible. I still think that there would be weeks and months of riots and ChiTown-style living in some major areas. I could see New York going feral during all of this. But then, I haven't gotten the book and seen where the nukes hit. I'm pretty damn surprise that Winternight was able to pull that off. I've really got to get this book.
Oh, and thanks for the paydata, Fortune. I appreciate the play-by-play there.
Gabriel
PS - By the way, what happened to the dragon that heads up Transys during all of this. Has he finally been able to go digital???
-
I'm only through a small part of SR4 but it says some areas, mostly the major metroplexes already had WMI running when the crash happened.
-
Actually, I'm half way though System Failure and I yet to get to that part. But so far DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a COOL BOOK!!!!
Gabriel
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awww... that makes me want to go steal it...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I can send you a copy for a small fee. Wanna haggle???
Gabriel
-
nope. i'm sticking to my resolve to just go buy it for reals when it comes out.
-RuskiFace teh Pirate
however, I do want a copy of Photoshop LS/2
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
REALLY??? :o Why the sudden change of heart??? Is the married life making a Joe Auburn out of you???? Say it ain't so, Ruski!!!! ;)
Gabriel
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Nah, I've always had a soft spot for economics. and I have no problem stealing from the rich and giving to myself; however, there are certan things I try not to steal from:
Pension plans. (nothing like wiping out the retirement from some old couple)
Foregn Dignataries. (Currency exchange is a Slitch.)
Video games I like to play. (gotta give em' money, so they make more)
and, lastly, but certanly not leastly; Productivity software that I use to be procuctive, that is, something that Actually does it's job. Such as Anti-Virus Programs, and the like. It's only a couple of bucks, and hacked versions tend to be... well... hacked.
SR books fall into the catagory of 'video games I like to play'... it's not really a 'video game' pr. say, but I need to support it if I want them to make more.
It's like... movies. I don't often pay for movies. almost never actually. but ocasionally, one will come allong, and instead of stealing it a week before it comes out; i'll actually pay to go see it. (also opposed to scamming my way through the front door, I also do a decent job of that.)
I dunno... Perhaps I'm just crazy... or perhaps all the stealing has given me a surplus of money; so that I might as well spend it on something... *shrug*
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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ruski and hear I thought you just sweet talked the mrs ruski into treating you '
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My sugar-momma? LOL nah, we have other things to do.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, like try on red hats. :P
Gabriel
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Yes sir!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Am I missing something???!!!1111eleventy-one!
-
Probably, but then, who the hell knows WHERE this thread is going.
Gabriel
-
Historically speaking, Gabriel likes red hats.
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Ones with frilly lace?
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The ones on 'Erin the Redhat; a neighbor of mine.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I still wonder how this all started. All I remember was one day there was no red hats, then the next day Gabe is going on and on about red hats.
?
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There was a wierd list of rules for something or other, and one of the 'rules' on there, was that erin the red-hat must be given free room and board for no more than 3 days anywhere she went.
I mentoned that was a pretty cool deal, and it made me wonder bout my old neighbor; Erin the Hottie who lived next door to me for years and years and years.
Gabe took it one step further; asking for pictures of this Erin in her red hat.
I said I could neither confirm nor deny the exsistance of any pictures of Erin, with or without a red hat, and things kinda ended up in the gutter from there.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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ROFL! So that's where it came from.
Where'd these rules come from?
-
here (http://www.phys.au.dk/~pain/ars/periph.htm).
Feel free to explore the rest of the site, from here (http://www.phys.au.dk/~pain/ars/).
-
good stuff no?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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WTH is that all about?
-
What's the name of this game again?
-
WTH is that all about?
Those are some of the by-laws of a covenant I'm participating run, run in the Ars Magica 3rd edition. (Yes, 2 newer editions exist. Both are, in my opinion, inferior.)
IT's also some of the main clues the PCs have to the history of the place, though most of the players haven't entirely realised how much that might mean.
Yes, they contadict themselves sometimes, this is entirely intentional.
-
It's a little crazy game I like to call 'life'.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Exactly.
-
Right, with lots of strange Magical Faery Kingdom stuff thrown in, no?
-
In medieval ireland? the Connacht bit?
In some areas you can hardly kick a path clear of the little blighters.
-
Bahahaha that's kewl! :)
-
Well, just be glad you aren't doing it in Germany. You'd have to deal with those Knockers in every cave ye be travellin' in. Called 'em "gnomes" they did.
-
Did they wear red hats??? ;D
Gabriel
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No, but one of them had a fox named "Swift" that he rode around on...
-
Sounds pretty neat.
Gabriel
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Definitely.
Now for history, what the crap is going in China in 2050+? I mean, they say it breaks into a bunch of feudal warlord states with guerillas and such?
-
According to Fasa, all of southeast asia is like that- there's no clear political lines for years.
(Although apparently Hong Kong and Taiwan ended up as Seattle-like principalities)
-kv
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Get the Shadows of Asia book for all of that paydata. Personally, I stopped buying the "Shadows of" books. But I can imagine that it will answer any of your questions. I'm kind of curious to find out why Japan hasn't gobbled up some of their neighbors during the power strugles. I would think that Japan would have been the first ones to take advantage of a destabalized power base in Asia.
Gabriel
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I suspect that it's not as simple as that because a lot of other megas have resources and subsidiaries all throughout Asia and having Japan unilaterally attack those countries would have the Corporate Council drop a nice fat Omega Order on the instigating Japanacorps. Granted, during the Year of the Comet, Imperial Japan had some nasty problems...
-
Well there's the rub: the corprations are seperate from the government, so the Emporer can do what he wants to without having to ask the Corps. The reality would be that it would have all kinds of financial implications in Japan if he did this, but the corporate court would have no realu authority unless it "found" colusion between the japanacorps and the Japanese government. And of course with the Corporate Court's power, I'm sure it could "find" and evidence it needed to. So yeah, you may be on to something there.
Now how did I talk myself OUT of my point of view????? :-\
Gabriel
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I am strong in The Force?
I'd wager that the Japanacorps are split in authority and fealty to the Emperor, especially a child-like Emperor. Several of the mega-corps look at it in a sense of false duty scheming behind the scenes, while others are honor-bound. I can only wonder how the Yakuza feel about the Emperor...
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Well, there have been attempts on his life, that's for sure. But it seems like the "kid" has some powerful frineds.
Gabriel
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Well, if the story of him surviving a volcanic eruption are true then... yeah :P
-
Yeah, does anyone know the deal with that?
I've heard of like over fifteen attempts on his life, none of which ever were successful. Including a major volcanic eruption. What sort of friends can get you out of trouble with a seismic event like that?
-kv
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Well, maybe that "kid" is no kid. Ever think of that??? Hell, he could be any number of spirit types. He could be a young great dragon. He could even be a SURGE csse with REALLY good regeneration abilities. (Of course, that would mean he probably IS a akid, so just forget I brought that up ;))
Gabriel
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Well, if the legends saying so are true, then the True Emperor really is a descendant of the Sun Kami, Amaterasu. As I recall, Sun Spirits are also known as Salamanders, and are a form of Nature Spirit, then perhaps young Emperor Yasuhiko is actually a very powerful summoner or has the aid of a very powerful Salamander free-spirit type protecting him? After all, Salamanders do have the Guard power, and I'd say a volcanic eruption is a very potent form of the Accident spirit power.
-
Kind of makes you want to talk to someone who's been close to the little tyke doesn't it?? Does anyone know if he came to power before the D.C. rift blew it's top and spit out Ghostwalker???
Gabriel
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Probably has more to do with the Comet and the mana-spike it brought with it.
-
Is the Dunkelzhan rift still around after Ghostwalker comes through it? Didn't it get smaller or bigger or something?
-kv
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It became more stable, but it is still there. But the thing is, all kinds of unique spirit types came through. Sheim are the most well-known, but there were all kinds of nasties that came out that never got acounted for.
Gabriel
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I thought they traced Imps re-emerging from the DC Rift.
-kv
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Probably did, but what else got out during the initial outbreak that never got catalogued or even noticed. How many really wierd spirit types are roaming around our neck of the woods now???
Here is a great entrance for your Cthulhu-type critters, Captain North.
Gabriel
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*COUGH*TheEnemy*COUGH*
-
If horrors got out, I'm going to go have a ad night followed with a .45 chaser
-kv
(and I'd be the lucky one!)
-
Yeah, but you know Retread would be jumping for joy if the ever brought some ED stuff into SR and actually CALLED it by its ED name. ;)
Gabriel
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They'd give it a new name.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeha, but if they didn't, I think Retread would do a little jig. And I think for once, I would have to join him. That would be pretty cool.
Gabriel
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I don't think the guys doing development now are big ED fans... I think they're busy trying to make Shadowrun more 'modern'
-kv
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More "modern" and less fun. I guess that happens when you get second and third generation game designers working in a pre-established setting. Oh well, I can always get old modules.. :'(
Gabriel
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or write your own.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Try Harlequin's Back, that has lots of ED references. Harlequin calls the Insect Spirits "Invae" and a story in the beginning he summons a Passion of Deception.
Nothing like going on a Rating 15 Astral Quest...
-
LOL, bet you LOVED that module, didn't you Retread??? ;) Actually, I have had to write most of my own modules. That takes a lot of time and effort. So one of these days maybe I'll get the hint and make someone ELSE run a game.
Gabriel
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The problem with modules is that players NEVER get into the whole: Tell It To Them Straight parts. Mostly because they railroad you in a particular direction, etc. I like giving my players a free choice to do what they want, even if it's sitting at home eating Nuke'n'Popcorn.
-
I read the modules just to steal ideas for my own campaigns.
-RuskiFace the PIrate
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Yeah, I usually find (the only module/campaign I tried to run my runners through was Super Tuesday) that if I steal an idea from a module, as poorly written as it might be, that I can spin that idea into it's own adventure or set of adventures, and work much better for player satisfaction. I mean, who knows your runners better than you do?
Unless you're running a new group, or the same group with totally different characters, who might act completly different or exactly the same as their predecessors.
-kv
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The modules are better for ideas, which is probably why FASA gave up on them and started producing Tiered books with ideas and plots but no explicit details.
-
I appreciated the move. I mean, some of the older modules had GREAT plot hooks, but the newer ones, like the novels, sucked rat ass.
I did like Threats 2. Very cool book, with 15 plotlines per section- even internal strife that might require shadowrunners to become involved in thier embroilings.
-kv
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Well, given that the novels serve the purpose of entertainment before inspiration, that's no surprise, really :^)
-
For me, It seems that more often than not the PC's tend to be the same, regardless of how diffrent they are suppose to be.
our own personalities show through in roll-playing more than anything else I think. perhaps some hollywood grade actors could pull off the personality switches, or perhaps some of the better GM's here, who have to do multiple personalities every hour inorder to give the PC's some interaction durring a run... but for the most part, my guys all tend to have a technical slant to them.
Stick to the Devil you know.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
I know lots of Devils, so I guess that works for me.
Astraroth, Beelzebub, Barubary, Mammon, etc.
-
Now see, I just knew ABOUT those guys. You must have some really interesting get-togethers. How do you keep the furniture from burning to a crisp with that kind of company???
Gabriel
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I'd suggest halon systems... but it may not help at thoes tempatures.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well that and it would kill any mortal in the room who doesn't have a SCUBA rig.
Gabriel
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or one of thoes cyber lung replacement things.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Unless it gets shot by a high-velocity round and suffers explosive decompression. ;)
Gabriel
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True that. but if you are being shot at in a room full of devils, with the halon system activated... you've probibly got bigger things to worry about than the chance explosion by richoshet in your cyberlung.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Actually, that's probably the BEST thing you can expect to happen in a room full of demons with an active halon system.
Gabriel
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Perhaps you can get something for your soul really fast before you die.
*shrug*
-RuskiFace the Priate
-
Blah, everyone knows that the Demons from religious texts are "the Enemy" or Corrupt Passions. The powerful ones aren't necessarily fiery, but rather, they represent the desire of raw consumption, degradation, and destruction. The Corrupt Passions are Deceit, Lust, Wrath, etc.
They're great to have at pool parties!
-
who wants to see an entire swimmingpool's worth of water be turned into steam?
OOOH!
OOOHHH!
Me!
I Do!
-RuskiFace the Priate
-
Passion, aren't those ED critters??
Gabriel
-
Passion, aren't those ED critters??
Entities, not critters, but otherwise, yeah.
-
I would think of the Passions as ehm... Totems with Avatars that take a more Er... Proactive role in things. They are essentially spirits that embody emotion, just as Bear or Rat embody a specific pathos or ideology.
In the adventure: Harlequin's Back, the story at the beginning is an interlude whereby in a drunken stupor, Harlequin summons a Passion spirit of Deception and uses it's Divination power.
In the Tir Tairngire sourcebook, a Shadowtalk post mentions a strange group of Druids with a following remark about them worshipping "Passion"
-
Yea, the hints are all there. but who's to say that it'll be the same this time.
things change.
-RuskiFace the PIrate
-
Again, different game, smiliar world.
Gabriel
-
Because "the Enemy" is known to exist, the Invae (bug spirits) do exist, Dragons exist. During the Year of the Comet several "rare minerals" were discovered even rarer than Orichalcum (*hack*TrueElements*cough*) Several strange Paracritters like the Night Manta and the Horned Bear were found (These are critters from Earthdawn)
In Earthdawn there were ghouls, however the Ghouls exposure to the Scourge made them go batty and Corrupt. Vampires weren't Undead in Earthdawn. Zombies were spirits inhabiting dead bodies.
Note the Bony Protrusions SURGE effect, which is a manifestation of the Cursed Thorns of the Blood Elves whom changed their races True Pattern to give themselves extreme pain to protect them from the Horrors.
Personally, with the technical nature of the world when the mana level reaches the point where the Passions arrive, they'll probably manifest themselves inside the Matrix or as a result of Simsense technology. I mean, Mynbruje (the Passion of Wisdom) will probably manifest inside the Denver Datahaven (if it's still around, that is)
-
That would be cool.
I wanna see a spirit in the matrix.
wonder if they would be as aragont as the AI's?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
I'm thinking they ARE the Ai's. Remember, you need an X-Factor to create a true AI. Who's to say that isn't an obsenly powerfull free spirit.
Gabriel
-
you know, after I wrote that; I had the exact same thought...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
That's spooky, chummer... :o
Gabriel
-
Ahem! I believe I had a hypothesis that Deus is actually the Mad Passion "Dis." The Mad Passion of Bureaucracy and Slavery. The nature of Deus' manipulations and mind-control experiments lead me to believe this. However, I have no solid proof in terms of canon.
-
actually, on that one... I think we are all in agreeance. it's too spookily close to really be anything else.
wierd.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
'Course. Fanpro would never develop anything like that, because I think they want to move away from Earthdawn references.
-
Yea, I get that feeling as well.
*shrug*
oh well, it'll just be an interesting part of history.
like NERPS.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
I voted for NERPS for president.
-
I think a big part of that is that the current developers are like us- (well, not all of us), and played Shadowrun, but didn't expereince the whole FASA thing.
So when they're cutting out earthdawn references, mostly they're getting rid of things that they don't understand. I don't know how hard it would be to explain to everyone that Earthdawn and Shadowrun took place in the same world, about ten thousand years apart, but they don't want to do it.
I actually think it would be a cool payoff for those people who go out and read the old Earthdawn books.
-kv
-
I had always assumed that the company is headed by one of those young "synergy" types that wants to reinvent the wheel. Notably, I think the game makes more money in Germany than in the states so they focus on what that market wants.
-
It's all about the newyen.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Or the Deutsche Marques
-
nope Deutsche Mark, if anything. Mind you, by now they switched to Euro (http://europa.eu.int/euro/), which I might add, are an abomination on the face of europe.
-
Right, got my linguistic idiosyncrasies. Isn't the Euro edible?
-
Ahem! I believe I had a hypothesis that Deus is actually the Mad Passion "Dis." The Mad Passion of Bureaucracy and Slavery. The nature of Deus' manipulations and mind-control experiments lead me to believe this. However, I have no solid proof in terms of canon.
Actually that brings up a good point. Deus was designed as a "sociology" program. It was used to chart, interpret, and predict social factors within a given group, in this case the archology. When it went AI and freaked out, it just carried on with it's original programming guidelines of charting, interpreting, and predicting social interactions as dictated by situations it created. It used all of its programming to manipulate EVERYONE into doing jsut what it wanted them to do, thus living up to its original intent in action, if not in motive.
Now that train of thought got me thinking about the Keymaster (or whatever the frag he was called) in the Matrix 2 movie, notably the scene in whcih he and Trinity are on top of the car-carrier rig and he gives her the "key" to start the motorcycle with. Now, if he was originally a decryption prgoram, it would explain how his AI eveolved along the lines of "keymaster." The acrhitect was a system design utility, and the Oracle was an Analyze utility. So how would other programs react if the "X-Factor" that the rulebooks talk about occured?
As far as I know, there have only ever been 3 confirmed AI's: Deus, Megara, and the old Echo-Mirage AI whose name escapes me. Deus was a social program, the Echo-Mirage AI was a medic program, and Megara was just plain fragged up. What would a combat program or a piece of Black IC turn into with sufficient programming power and X-Factor? What kind of persovnality would emerge???
Gabriel
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Scary thought, really. But I found it sort of odd that there is shadowtalk mentioning Daemons created by Otaku doing things after their creator was killed. Very strange, indeed.
-
Well, nothing wrong with a signoff program.
Otaku can write code that stays on the trix' when they logoff just like any other decker.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Good point. Maybe the programs are just running without a cut-off comand?
Gabriel
-
one way of explaining away the freakyness of it anyhew.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
As I recall, the Daemons aren't programmed by any respect, but rather they are ideas memorized by the Otaku and then "enacted" on a system. So you couldn't ask an Otaku for a "copy" of his Daemon because the intrinsic nature of spending Karma on its creation makes it unique, "Named" if you will. You could say that Sprites and Daemons are like spells, but if they were, they would just disappear, so rather, they are like Ally spirits and go "free" when the Otaku that created them dies. If you ask any mage who has an Ally spirit, they'll tell you that they grow and learn just as well as any other critter around.
-
And see there, yet another reason I hate Otaku.
Gabriel
-
Well, even if the original program is 'written' in the otaku's mind, it has to run and interact with the computers arround it. so it could 'run' in resident memory for any of the machines it was standing in.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
Touche'
Gabriel
-
Then again, most programs have 'a job' to do... and all the reports or whatnot would be going back to the dead otaku... not that he/she would be doing much with them.
another otaku could probibly capture and copy the sprite if they had enough karma and a sleeze program good enough...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
-
I'm not so sure about that. I always figured that the Otakus Complex Forms and such were stored inside their Living Persona, and since Living Personas have an effective bandwidth of 0 they don't use active memory, the sprites are more like little clones of their Living Persona. I mean, try asking an Otaku if you can borrow one of their channels.
With the way the Otaku talk, you'd think that it was just like Astral space, all talkin' about Resonance Flows and such. Sounds a lot like background count. It all sounds too much like magic to be anything else, really. It's more about will and action than lines of code and algorithms. Things happen because the Otaku will it to happen.
-
but it works in an enviroment ruled by numbers.
an otaku can't 'will' a dataflow to go the other dirrection.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Ah, therein lies the trouble. You've got a will that writes the numbers for them, and abilities that are developed by Karma and not code. So in reality, the nature of data-flows can be altered by these abilities. Observe how Pax and the Dissonant Voices re-sculptured all those systems to create Dissonance pools.
Consider if you will, what all this data moving around represents in a metaphysical sense. You've got ideals, sociology, emotions, raw economics, objects and articles that represent entirely physical things. All of these things are Karma, and where Karma is spent so do spirits grow and form, regardless of their form. Take a deed for a large condominium, that deed, despite the fact that it exists as data still represents the posession of the condominium, thusly the deed is linked in a metaphysical sense to the condominium, so by the nature of these metaphysical links, as the importance of the condo grows, so does bond between the two articles, sending more Karma or mana into the system. You take enough of these links and you'll notice that such a great accumulation of ideas and thoughts make the system into something which it was never intended to be, sapient.
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But cyberspace is NOT REAL! In no sense is cyberspace a place. It is all just a representation of dat within the brain of the user. It has niether form, nor substance. It is less real than Astral Space. It is a GUI. That's all cyberspace is. That's all it ever was.
Gabriel
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So, any spirits that apear there... woulc be more manifestations in the human mind, where the images are formed... our own skulls would have to be the haunting grounds for spirits...
and the data, only has meaning to thoes who care about it.
encrypted, it would be like it's true name was re-writen to mean gobeldeegook.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Just trying to make a point.
Gabriel
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and I agree with your point!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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YOU BETTER!!!! ;)
Gabriel
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Yea!...
so... who writes thease history books anyways?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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the Victor, as is is traditional.
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The gross public perception, I mean, honestly, you think people would right history books if there wasn't any money in it?
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the Victor, as is is traditional.
Yeah but the victor of what? I mean, who "won" in the Dug CIty incident, or the Crash of 2029?
Gabriel
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well, the bugs didn't.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, both ARES and the UCAS government pulled off the spin-job of the Century, convincing people to move back into an area that was still infested, poisoned for magic users, and full of gangs unwilling to give up thier peice of the pie, so I would have to say: Them.
-kv
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Real Estate in Chicago is expensive...
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Not so much anymore. I heard it's in a bad neighborhood.
-kv