Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => SR3 (Shadowrun 3rd Edition) General Discussion => Topic started by: bustaballs on August 09, 2005, 10:30:24 PM
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I'm working on making a cyberpunk rpg video game because I hate how rare cyberpunk video games are. The one's that do exist either suck or are too linear. Anyways the site and forums are very ghetto because I'm doing everything by myself and I have no income but I should very soon and will be able to pay for a real host and domain.
Anyways it currently has no population but I'm hoping to change that and get some help. My main ideas from the game have been inspired by the genesis version of Shadowrun (my favorite game of all time) but with original story, art, etc. The gameplay will be somewhat similar is the main thing.
Also I'm not an expert cyberpunk guy so maybe some people to help out with some ideas of things to put in the game. I already have quite a bit of progress into it and I don't plan for it to turn into another dead internet project (like all the free mmos and FPS mods).
Well if you guys have any interest come check out the ghettoness at www.bigbagofthings.bravehost.com
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'ghettoness' is a great word to use when you want someone to check out your site!!!
Hehehe, jk. I checked it out and it does remind me of the SNES Shadowrun game like you say. More kinda top view than 3/4 view but hey I'm not complaining ;)
Keep us posted!
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what are you using to write it?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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'ghettoness' is a great word to use when you want someone to check out your site!!!
Hehehe, jk. I checked it out and it does remind me of the SNES Shadowrun game like you say. More kinda top view than 3/4 view but hey I'm not complaining ;)
Keep us posted!
Looks good mate ;D
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Cyberpunk was my first real role play experience. I'd try your game.
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yup. one of the greats.
-RuskIFace the Pirate
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Of course, post-apocalyptic is much better.
*ahem*
In any case, I applaud your efforts at freelance game design. We'll help in any way that we can, of course. If you need some... inexpensive... cyberpunk resources, just drop me a line.
Fnord.
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oooh! and if we can set something on fire, all the better!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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OH! And as long as we're listing things, we need plot devices for:
- Kidnapping.
- Drug and alcohol abuse.
- Prostitutes.
- Random acts of violence.
- Flamethrowers.
- Aliens.
- Plenty of gratuitous cursing.
- Slavery.
- Porn films.
- Little kids you can shoot and steal from.
Oh, ah... wait. We already have that one; it's called Fallout.
Well, just fit in as much of the list as possible...
Fnord.
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oh yea, i need to go back and finish that one.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, too bad Black Isle is deader than an abat (Phillipino Vampire) on the back of a humpback whale.
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i don't think i fully apriceate that refrence...
deader than an undead vampire... got it...
where does the whale come into play?
are they alergic to salt water or something?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, the abat has Vulnerability (Salt)
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that's interesting. i didn't know that.
i wonder what salt does to them?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I imagine it burns them and does a light wound.
I made a "Salt Spray" elemental salt water effect that added +1 pain modifier to characters with Physical wounds. I imagine in this case, the spell would do extra damage. The spell itself was considered two elementals and thus had a higher drain code.
Made a paranormal hunter that used a modified Metal elemental effect to make a Silver elemental effect for hunting shapeshifters. Boy was he surprised when he encountered a Warek.
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that's interesting. i didn't know that.
i wonder what salt does to them?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
Ever seen a garden slug cover in salt?
that's what it does to them.
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You can load rock-salt as shotgun rounds.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Given the nature of munitions in 2060, you could probably load rock salt into any kind of gun...
However, the definition of "salt" is slightly vague as almost any acid-base reaction creates "salt"
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You can load rock-salt as shotgun rounds.
And it counts as an 'Elemental Attack', therefore it bypasses a Spirit's Immunity To Normal Weapons. ;)
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really? I never thought of that...
-RuskIFace the Pirate
wouldn't lead be an elemental attack under thoes same rules?
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No, because it is processed, and so no longer considered to be 'elemental' in nature.
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And it counts as an 'Elemental Attack', therefore it bypasses a Spirit's Immunity To Normal Weapons.
If one of my players tried to pull this little gem, s/he have to talk amazingly fast, and give me some really good page referances...
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and salt-load rounds aren't processed?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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The damage is based on the "Name" of the weapon in question. A hunk of raw stone would do elemental damage as it is still "stone" but if you carve it into a knife and throw it, it becomes named "Knife" and is now a normal weapon.
A water cannon does elemental damage because the water isn't prepared for use as a weapon, it is simply water, where the lead is no longer "lead" in Name, but "bullet." The water in the cannon is still "water" not "water cannon ammo."
The nature of magic and spirits has far more to do with Names than it does the physics.
The rock-salt is still "salt" because it has not been named "shell" or "bullet"
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Exactly.
The rock salt doesn't have to be processed at all. Just tip some in a Streetsweeper (which will take and fire almost anything) and blaze away.
As for giving a canon page reference, in Shadowrun most 'elemental attacks' are not clearly defined.
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So does that mean that a flame thrower isn't considered a fire attack? The ammo for it is a processed fuel in a canister that is ignited.
Then what's up with the 'laser' elemental attack that I read about in MITS? There's a spell called laser or something and has an area-effect version called nova (mind you this is off of memory). It said something to the effect of the laser spell effected people like sunlight would, so if you hit a vampire with a laser spell it would damage them as sunlight. Does this mean laser weapons attack as an elemental light attack?
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whoa... all that thinking just made me dizzy...
so, rock-salt stings like a mother, and can work on elementals?
i think i'm going to start carrying my street-sweeper arround with me some more.
-RuskIFace the Pirate
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So does that mean that a flame thrower isn't considered a fire attack? The ammo for it is a processed fuel in a canister that is ignited.
The damage is done by the fire, not the chemicals that cause the fire. A Flamethrower (spell or gear) is an Elemental Attack.
Then what's up with the 'laser' elemental attack that I read about in MITS? There's a spell called laser or something and has an area-effect version called nova (mind you this is off of memory). It said something to the effect of the laser spell effected people like sunlight would, so if you hit a vampire with a laser spell it would damage them as sunlight.
Yes, a Laser or Nova spell would affect a vampire as if against a Vulnerabilty (+1 DL I think).
Does this mean laser weapons attack as an elemental light attack?
Again, yes. They use the Element of Light, therefore are considered Elemental Attacks, just as their spell equivalents.
Water Cannons and Sand Blasters can also be useful as Elemental Attacks. ;D
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Wow I never thought about that! Sand blaster = earth elemental effect?
How about if you had a large air compresser and you somehow got the pressure really high and fit it to a nozzle. Air attack?
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I suppose so, but a i've seen a sand-blaster pull all the skin off of a guy, I have yet to see a air compressor blow a damaging amount of wind at someone.
i'm not saying it couldn't happen, but if you are looking to mount something usefull on your vehicle or troll, i'd go with one of the other options.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Wow I never thought about that! Sand blaster = earth elemental effect?
How about if you had a large air compresser and you somehow got the pressure really high and fit it to a nozzle. Air attack?
Pretty much. Canon leaves it up to the imagination, just using the vague catch-phrase 'Elemental Attack', and then going about telling how bullets and knives, clubs, and fists are all not considered to be elemental.
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i'm not saying it couldn't happen, but if you are looking to mount something usefull on your vehicle or troll, i'd go with one of the other options.
Ah, but what's useless on a troll might well be effective against a Spirit. Even an air compressor should deserve a damage code of something like 4L to Spirits (6L to Earth related types). And it would bypass the Spirit's natural Immunity To Normal Weapons. Use the Spray Weapons skill for attacking purposes.
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A traditional concussion grenade uses Air Blast elemental effect as it's explosion isn't based on sharpnel but on a vacuum of air created by the blast itself. Therefore the grenade isn't the weapon, but the Air that impacts the target.
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I was going to mention that, but figured you (specifically ;D) would disagree. :)
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A traditional concussion grenade uses Air Blast elemental effect as it's explosion isn't based on sharpnel but on a vacuum of air created by the blast itself. Therefore the grenade isn't the weapon, but the Air that impacts the target.
So does that mean that in a literal sense a concussion grenade does air elemental based damage but based by the rules it's just a grenade?
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I think this just goes to let the PC's try to be creative with this.
'normal guns don't work, try something else'
at that point they have to think, and get arround the obsticle.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Ruski hit it on the head.
Basically speaking, a snowball would be more effective on an elemental than a gun.
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Exactly!
And great example too. ;D
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I like it!
and in seattle, i think that snowballs and guns have the same availability rateing.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I like it!
and in seattle, i think that snowballs and guns have the same availability rateing.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
:o
That's sooo true!
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I suppose so, but a i've seen a sand-blaster pull all the skin off of a guy, I have yet to see a air compressor blow a damaging
-RuskiFace the Pirate
I've stood in front of a fan (or the front wheel of an exercise bike) that is able to get up a goodly amount of wind. Not enough to push anything heavier than a piece of paper, but it's a fair amount of force in a concentrated area. That sort of thing would be effective against anything with a vulnerability to air. :D
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I thought the will played a part in the damge /effectiness
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So what would make a list of improvisational weapons that would be good use against a spirit?
Oh... and go cyberpunk video game.
-kv
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So what would make a list of improvisational weapons that would be good use against a spirit?
Oh... and go cyberpunk video game.
-kv
A pen, or some word processing software on a computer :P
And go cyberpunk video game!
P.S. There are so many possible improvised weapons... that's why they're called improvised. There's no way you could list all the possiblities.
For Air vulnerability, obviously anything that concentrates a large amound of air in a small area would work.
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I'll HUFF! and I'll PUFF! and I'll BLOW your house down!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Willpower is used as the dice rolled for the attack. Charisma is the power of the attack. Damage code is always Moderate. Weapon has no effect save for the reach, therefore, grab a spear and go bug-hunting.
I made a mundane spirit hunter who specialized in using spirit weaknesses and will-fighting.
I imagine a GM might allow players to make a Spirit Fighting skill that uses Willpower as its base.
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Could do that. I'd let it in my campaign, but he wouldn't be able to find anyone to train him with that, he'd have to go up in skill points on his own. (at a slight additional karma cost)
if he started abusing it; I'd just up the cost to learn the next level. no big deal.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Probably just easier to allow the player to develop massive Willpower levels but require them to do some whacked out drek in order to achieve it. Like train with some super-duper specialist. I imagine at some point the player would be forced to be taught by some force 10+ spirit or dracoform in order to raise their willpower any higher. Or perhaps have some strange magical event whereby the player becomes a semi-Awakened spirit hunter.
Then force the player to make an alignment choice between a defender against spirits or a brutal destroyer who seeks to rid the world of ALL spirits. Use certain places that act as Astral Gateways for finding True Names and such, might be pretty interesting...
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interesting for that one PC perhaps, but if he's in a group; it's going to get dull fast.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Eh, in all my games I keep track of a calendar and players have to train their skills and plan out their availabilities. So, instead of "oh, okay we'll do this run now" they have to plan their schedules and get in all their character development in between. Personal actions take the place as turns, so you simply switch off between characters.
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still; as a skillset, a specalised 'ghost hunter' is going to be a one trick pony... if you have a run, or a group of runs that isn't always masterminded by yet another evil ghostlike entity, they aren't going to have much to do. and whereas they will be happy to whump on spirits untill the end of time, most of the other PC's will probibly get tired of it.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
(that's the problem I always had with letting Otaku into the group too)
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Otaku are a developmental character. The idea behind them in a group of runners is for the runners to "adopt" the Otaku and teach them to act more like normal people. Get them to spend some of their Karma on non-Matrix tech and then maybe a combat skill or such.
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and how is that diffrent from someone who put every last charichter point and karma into their willpower and 'ghost fighting' abilities?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
other than willpowering themselves past the display of 'nerps' at the stuffer shack, how else is a high willpower going to help in game? it's a one trick pony.
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Resisting mana spells? Some of my group still hasn't learned that trick.
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Well, to be fair; Otaku are also handy at opening locks most of the time, and ocasinally at repairing your car when it's all shot up.
still, it's a very specific ability range. people who are very specalized... in my experence, are good for like one or two runs tops. after that, they get boring, and when you try to branch out their abilitys, you'll find that you've sacrificed so much to make them amazingly good at one thing, that they can't keep up in the 'average' range with any other methodology. your willpower guy will have problems getting his pistol skill above 3. and if you try to start shooting things, he won't be able to keep up with the decker. or, if he pisses off his team-mates because he trys to dis-apperate any ghost he sees, even if it messes with the current run, and finds himself trying to find work on his own... he's going to be hard up to get his negeotion skill up high enough to convince people to pay him to fight ghosts...
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Well, the implication is that the spirit hunter is also handy enough with weaponry to double as a Samurai. There's nothing in the statement that says they can't get cyber or good weapons. They simply specialize their knowledge skills towards identifying spirit-types and have equipment that focuses on closing the distance gap quickly to engage in Will-fighting. You'd be surprised what an extendable staff and a set of hydraulic jacks for your legs will do...
Remember, willpower is also calculated in combat pool, spell resistance, critter power resistance (never fought a barghest or siren before?) stun damage recovery, drug addiction resistance, torture, etc. So having an amped willpower is more useful than amped strength. Additionally, you could also take the Magic Resistance edge and play it off as a sort of "disbelief" whereby the character is anti-magic because he refuses to believe it has power over him. There's lots of ways to play it off, really.
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You can make the same argument for a high intelegence that deckers posess. and you could argue that otaku deckers would be able to use their skills to pilot drones, and use supressive fire that way to help in 'combat' situations that are outside of there element.
I'm just saying; that under the new rules, I'd rather have a team mate that got two stats at 5, rather than one stat at 6.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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New Rules Poo Shmules!
I stand behind my archaic min-maxery.
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well, Let's see how it carries over to the next generation!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I don't have the time or the money to go and learn a new set of rules that compromise the fine understanding of what I already know. I can guarantee that all the new sourcebooks that come out will be just as bad about giving players a bucket of dice to use and now with no target numbers, that bucket will be even more munchkin than before.
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Well, target number 5 is still a pretty decent goal to hit.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I still don't agree with it. Sure, it's simpler, but so is Yahtzee. And we all know how much fun Yahtzee really is...
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and you can still adjust the threashold if you wanted to. make them get 200 sucesses or somesuch.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I suppose but how many people keep 200 dice handy?
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I suppose but how many people keep 200 dice handy?
Please.
Don't ask, don't tell.
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Let's see now... I got like three bricks... thoes are like... three across... three deep and four high... so that's... three times three is nine... times four
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thirty six...
times three...
that's 108...
each of my players probibly has about the same...
there are five of us in the group...
that's ... 540 dice total.
*shrug* and normally; we just roll in batches of '12' dice if it get's to terrible. so you can roll the dice, count up the sucesses, and then roll them again.
(that's one of the great things about dice, unless you count cheeto oarnge finger death, getting swallowed, or thrown at someone who just killed your whole party... they have pretty much limitless uses before they wear out.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Never play "dice" against a brick wall then, it tends to chew up the corners on some dice...
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even then. I can get a ten pack for a buck and change at my local geek shop.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I bought these tiny little 1cm dice, real cheap too, like 2 bucks for 20 of em. Too bad their probably made in China...
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I got a set of Jade dice for like $60 once.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Er... why?
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Because I had my weight in dice at the time... and I had a disposible income, was living at home, and didn't have a girlfriend at the time.
Geek + Money +(Girlfriend * 0) + (Rent * 0) = $60 Jade Dice.
-RuskiFace the Geek
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Priorities are important, you know :P
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i have a set of marble 6 siders
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I wonder if marble has it's weight properly balanced...
Gonna try and get some cheat dice that roll 6's when I need 'em. Yeah, that's the ticket, it's not "fudging" by the GM anymore then.
Yeah.
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LOL I just roll behind the screen and tell them what I wanted to see.
or for kicks and giggles, I roll, and without blinking, or looking down at the dice stare them in the eye and say "Your stupid idea didn't work."
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Heh, stupid ideas are the fun ones.
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Yea, sometimes.
but only sometimes.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Tents come to mind. I remember reading one thing on the shadowrun archive about some player trying to use the auto-reeling from his grapple gun like the one from Batman and go flying up. Well the GM made it go up for a while, break and nearly kill the character. So then the player goes and tries to do it again, and the the character breaks his neck.
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see, that's why you gotta talk to the GM.
say, hey, can I put like 5X the cost into one, so it can do this one specific feat i'm going for?
as opposed to just trying to d oit on the fly.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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If you can tell me how to put enough power in a little handheld grappling gun to winch a 200+ lbs str 6 and body 6 human, sure. But I really doubt that such a thing is really possible.
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Anything is possible. it may just not be cost effective.
you could use a series of nanites to wind it up nice and neat. you'd probibly have to feed it batteries or something to keep it charged, but it's certanly possible.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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acturly if I am not mistaken there are real life automated assenders
http://www.bonanzaproducts.com/
http://www.powerquickcanada.com/
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not quite the 'batman quality speeds' that we were probibly thinking of... but in the future... could be a little faster and a little smaller.
no big deal.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Something that hand-held can't generate enough torque to do that. Under that logic, there should be Power Hammers ala Fallout or Vibroblades that do 20D damage.
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we do have vibroblades.
*shrug* but meelee weapons suck.
never bring a knife to a gun fight.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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That's why you should have both: The gun to keep him at a distance, and the knife in case someone gets in close.
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*shrug* just stick with the gun. get some martial-arts skills for up-close and personal. takes just as much training to be good with a knife,... and it's easyer to smugle your hands into a secure area, over a broadsword.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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true...but you can't throw your hands.
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goes back to the gun. if you are far enough away, use that.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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I suppose it also goes to personal preference.
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*shrug* I suppose so.
and knives do have their uses,
I just think that the situations that they work well in, are few and far between.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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get some martial-arts skills for up-close and personal. takes just as much training to be good with a knife,...
No. Well, rules wise, sure, but RL, not so much.
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and that's where it comes into workin' the system.
a little bit of min-max goes a long way.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Have you ever tried killing a spirit with a gun? Try it with a knife, you'll get MUCH better results.
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and the Kai-Strike from tai-quando would be any worse than the knife?
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Relatively the same, actually. The Focus Willpower ability of Tai-Chi-Chuan users would be far more effective, since they can use it twice and get a +4 willpower on their next strike against the spirit.
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so, unarmed combat is better!
Horrah!
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Yeah, unless you're using a weapon like a spear, whereby the +2 reach bonus can lower your target number. The knife is also the cheapest form for a Weapon Focus, which does full damage against spirits.
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well, this wasn't a discussion on melee weapons in general. it was just knife vs/ unarmed martial arts.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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The knife would only win out if it was magical. Otherwise it would be equal with martial arts against a spirit. A knife does physical damage, so it's messier than using your hands.
Notably for an adept, you can't make your hands into a weapon focus, so a knife is ideal. Of course, if you're the brawling type, you can just enchant a pair of knuckle dusters or sap gloves as a Weapon Focus.
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Yup!
gotta love what a roll of quarters can do to a guys face.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Keep in mind, that if you have the cash and the resources, you can also get some more high-tech items as foci. Stun Batons, Shock-hands, Cyber-spurs/claws, even whole cyberlimbs.
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hmm...maybe I should do that with my snap blades...
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*shrug* I wouldn't know what to do with a Foci if it walked up and sat on my face.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Eh heh, you might consider having a friendly mage do a short force 3, 3 hour ritual to have an 8 hour long Increase Intelligence spell, and tell me how that helps your decking [display_grin]
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well, as a pistol focus?
I know that magic in general can be very usefull... but as far as a non-mage using a focus...
-RuskIFace the Pirate
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Yeah, that's the rub, of course, you could always enter into a pact with Gaf to get one point of magic and be able to bond with Foci.
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Sell your soul? hmm... I think I'll just stick to the matrix.
-RuskiFace the Pirate