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Author Topic: Magic Rules  (Read 26593 times)

Retread

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2006, 06:49:00 AM »

Ahem, fine then:

I'll just have to summon this force  20 Moth spirit in Hawa'ii then...
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"Why do I care? Personally, I think everyone smells a little bit better when their flesh is smouldering..."    ---Dros, Vindictive Fire Mage

Gabriel

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2006, 09:58:42 AM »

LOL, only if you can find two REALLY tiny Japanese women to warn everyne about it first. ;)

But since we are on the topic of bug spirits, do the flesh form spirits get any of the regular spirit powers of the normal true form spirits??? MiTS seems to say that a flesh form spirit is really just a freaky looking critter with stats based on those of an NPC. A "good merge" seems to get the better end of ths stick, but still no spirit powers. Can anyone clarify this for me?

Also, in the description of a "good merge" flesh form spirit, it states that they do NOT get hardened armor, but can wear body armor. This statement seems to insinuate that other types of flesh form spirits DO get hardened armor, but I can't find that stated anywhere. These rules seem to be very badly organized and only partially thought out.

Gabriel
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Retread

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2006, 10:42:58 PM »

Flesh forms are the same as their true-form counterparts save a few things:

They have no natural armor. The second number in their stat-listing under Body is their natural armor rating for true-form. Therefore, a true-form beetle spirit has a natural armor of Force x 2. I imagine, this is cumulative with the Immunity to Normal Weapons granted by materialization. It's not recommended fighting fighting beetle spirits with guns...

They cannot be banished because they are melded to the host.

They are not weak against insecticides.

They do not Materialize and as such, the materialize power is void.

They are dual-natured, and therefore, have no Astral Reaction. Use their physical reaction instead.

Flesh-form workers are weaker but have the ability of "Skill" which gives them a skill at summoning equal to their force. Additionally, their physical attributes are reduced by 1. Solitary insects are considered soldiers and have no worker form.

Good merges come out with all the skills and knowledge of their host, which implies spells and whatnot.
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"Why do I care? Personally, I think everyone smells a little bit better when their flesh is smouldering..."    ---Dros, Vindictive Fire Mage

kv

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #63 on: May 18, 2006, 02:09:31 AM »

So. You're saying you CAN banish bug spirits?

   -kv
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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2006, 04:09:16 AM »

Yes.
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Gabriel

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #65 on: May 18, 2006, 07:10:05 AM »

So, Retread, except for armor, a Flesh Form has all of the listed powers of its spirit type???

Gabriel
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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #66 on: May 18, 2006, 10:58:09 AM »

Yes.
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kv

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #67 on: May 18, 2006, 12:20:54 PM »

Except that it can't be banished. So, what is the physical initiative for a flesh-form?

  -kv
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Retread

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2006, 12:58:30 PM »

The same as a normal spirit: Reaction + 10 + 1d6. You try catching a fly and tell me they don't go fast :D
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kv

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #69 on: May 18, 2006, 04:52:03 PM »

I can catch flies bare-handed... but nevermind.

Okay, so fleshforms are more dangerous than I had been led to believe.
I actually downloaded the UB and Chicago soucebooks, just to have the info for a Chicago-run.

  -kv
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"There are three rules to surviving a gun fight.
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   If you can do that, you can survive."
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Retread

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2006, 07:50:39 PM »

Bugs are scary in general, Kid. You can see why they were a problem. Additionally, true-form spirits are considered double their force with regards to banishing.

Keep in mind that the "average" insect spirit is force 3, and the average human has stats of 3. So your basic flesh-form ant worker would have Physical attributes of 2 but be very fast by the nature of their spirit.

By their nature, true-forms are more powerful and dangerous, which is why insect mothers/queens add a penalty to the host's willpower test. The queen wants the the host to turn into a true form. However, when the personality of the host overtakes the spirit, the spirit cannot become true and so becomes imprisoned in the flesh, an incomplete creation.
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"Why do I care? Personally, I think everyone smells a little bit better when their flesh is smouldering..."    ---Dros, Vindictive Fire Mage

kv

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #71 on: May 18, 2006, 09:43:04 PM »

Actually, I have another question that I need answered (a couple of questions, to be honest)

I found an interesting tidbit on page 191, under where it says 'Drain.'
Drain consists of a modifier to the Drain's Power (based on half the spell's force, rounded down) and the drain level, the base damage the drain causes.
Am I reading that right? The drain is HALF the target number for the spell?

So, what determines the 'force' of a spell? I thought I understood the concept, but I was reading the magic section again tonight, and this just struck me. What about spells with set target numbers such as armor, or elemental manipulations, which are treated as ranged attacks?

Can someone clear this up for me?

 -kv
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"There are three rules to surviving a gun fight.
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3) Shoot last
   If you can do that, you can survive."
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                                (Mercury's Father)

ROOTless

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #72 on: May 19, 2006, 02:29:12 AM »

Actually, I have another question that I need answered (a couple of questions, to be honest)

I found an interesting tidbit on page 191, under where it says 'Drain.'
Drain consists of a modifier to the Drain's Power (based on half the spell's force, rounded down) and the drain level, the base damage the drain causes.
Am I reading that right? The drain is HALF the target number for the spell?

So, what determines the 'force' of a spell? I thought I understood the concept, but I was reading the magic section again tonight, and this just struck me. What about spells with set target numbers such as armor, or elemental manipulations, which are treated as ranged attacks?

Can someone clear this up for me?

Not having my book with me, I can't give you page number, but here goes.

To cast a spell, look up the target number in the spell description. Often it is static (4 for most elemental manipulations) but even more often, it depends on your target (manabolt says willpower, which means the target number is the willpower of your target). This is why why you use manabolts and the like against sammies with more brawns than brains. Any armor they wear will be ignored, and a lot of them have low willpower. Most illusions use itelligence, IIRC. If they are noted as 'resisted', they are resisted using the same attribute..

This is completely independant of the Force of the spell.
Please repeat this after me
'completely independant of the Force of the spell'
'completely independant of the Force of the spell'
'completely independant of the Force of the spell'

Right. The Force of the spell does nothing for the caster's target number. What the Force does varies by spell.
in the 3rd edition, healing spells can heal no more boxes of damage than their Force. Damage spells have a damage code based on their Force (as in (Force)S, if you choose to cast them at serious).
For a spell like levitation, force gives you (together with successes) how fast you move the affected object.
For many detection spells, it's a factor in range.

A magician learns a given spell at a specific (max) force.
It can then be cast at this force or lower. Thus it is always an advantage to know a spell at the highest force you can get, as you can always cast it at any force you like, up to this max.
If you cast a spell at a force higher than your magic attribute, drain is physical damage, so don't do that.

Drain is based on half the force used in the specific casting of the spell. (often with some modifier).

Exemplia Gratioa:
My character casts his lightning bolt. At the moment, I don't recall the drain code, so let's just say it's +3(V)
It's an elemental manipulation, so my target number is 4 (that's in the spell profile, top of the description).
I decide to cast it at force 4, because I don't want to kill myself with the drain (I know it at force 10, but I'm not really interested in killing myself with all that power!). and I decide to cast it at M (it's an elemental manipulation spell, so I can choose this freely). Then my drain is ((4/2)+3)M = 5M, resisted using willpower and possibly dice from the spell pool (or whatever it's called these days). My target would take a damage of 4M, half impact armor.

If I'd decided to cast it at Force 10 (I really need to take that guy down, right now!), my target number to cast would still be 4 (it's static, see the spell description), but drain would be ((10/2)+3)M = 8M (assuming it's still cast at M). It's also likely to be physical unless I'm a really hotshot initiate or something like that.
My target would take 10M, again with only half impact armor.

If instead I'd gone for a manabolt (I seem to recall drain as (V), check for yourself), it'd have looked like this:
I know the spell at Force 6, and I'm gonna use all of it. Force 6 it is.
Then I would've rolled my spell casting dice against a target number equal to my victem's willpower.
My drain would be 3M (still casting spells at M, even though I caould've gone for L,S or even D).
He would take damage of 6M (physical, no armor), which would not in any way be affected by his body, since technically, all he get's is a spell defence test, based on his willpower (against my force of 6) and any dice he got from spell defence.
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Gabriel

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #73 on: May 19, 2006, 05:24:53 AM »

And all of THAT is without having his book with him. Great Ghost, Retread, I think you must sleep with these things under your pillow. ;)

Gabriel
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Retread

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Re:Magic Rules
« Reply #74 on: May 19, 2006, 06:56:12 AM »

Well, that was ROOTless saying that :P

Elemental manipulations always have a drain level 1 higher than the damage they are cast at:
L damage lightning bolt is (F/2)M

However, elemental manipulations that do stun damage (like water or smoke, yes there's a smoke element) reduce the drain target number by 1. So my specialty Saltwater Blast would have a drain code of ((F/2)-1)((Damage Level)+1).

Saltwater Blast adds +1 to the damage penalty for physical wounds, implying the salt rubbing into open cuts, burns, and bullet wounds.
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"Why do I care? Personally, I think everyone smells a little bit better when their flesh is smouldering..."    ---Dros, Vindictive Fire Mage
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