Shadowrun RPG > Magic and the Planes

Adepts

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kv:
Because you can allocate sorcery dice for spell resistance tests (it's a nice trick for mages, and an even nastier one for adepts).

Physads can cast spells if they have the "Path of the Magician" power, which costs one point of powers, and gives you an effective magic rating (for casting) of 1. So my pot head mage, Jeff, had three points of magical power, and improved reflexes.

When fighting astrally, Jeff could substitute his sorcery skill (4/6) for his unarmed combat skill (6), if he really wanted to. Instead, I would use my unarmed combat, and then allocate my sorcery dice for spell resistance, so that anyone who hit me with a spell would regret wasting the energy.

  -kv

BornKrazi:
Right I understand that, but what I'm saying is that in the core book (which didn't mention anything about the 'Path of the Magican') it says that a physad while engaging in astral combat can use the Astral Combat specialization of Sorcery (which includes spellcasting on the next line).  So what I don't understand is that if they can use it in astral combat why can't they use it all the time?

Now I remember reading (probably in MiTS) where it explained how mana and whatnot was different in astral space, such as a lower level of force to case a spell and still have the same effect...something like that.  I dunno, maybe I'm not expressing correctly what I'm asking, but I'm not gonna rack my brain over it.  I know what to do if I want to be spell slinger, and I know what to do if I wanna be a physad...so I guess that's all that matters  ;D

kv:
Yeah, you're right about astral space being different. For instance, in astral space, spells do physical drain. Just like if you were overcasting, only you take extreme damage when casting spells in astral.

Physads can't cast unless they take the path of magician power (which I think might be in MITS... although I thought it was in SR3... I'll have to check on that, or perhaps ROOTless, our local magic guru could help us out).

  -kv

BornKrazi:
It could be in the core book, I might've overlooked it.  I do know it is in MiTS.

ROOTless:

--- Quote from: BornKrazi on March 03, 2007, 06:19:07 AM ---So why then would it say "(Note using Sorcery in this manner does 'use up' Sorcery dice for purposes of spell defense, spellcasting, and so on.)" [p.174]

--- End quote ---

BEcause not just adepts may use sorcery in this way. Magician may as well (indeed are more likely to do so), for them the dice are used up.
There is nothing in that statement to indicate that adepts suddently aquire the ability to cast spells just because their percieve astrally.

The Path of the Magician is MitS, p. 22 (as is the adept power 'Magic Power', as mentioned previously.

OK, right. Let's do this full scale.

When you're fighting astrally, it has fairly little to do with the blows you throw, the way you kick. It's about imposing your will upon the astral energies.
The anomaly is not that you can use sorcery instead of your close combat skill, but that (un-)armed combat skills work at all!

If I'm astrally projecting, and come upon an adept, who's using astral perception, and I decide to punch his lights out, I have certain options.
I can 1) Cast a spell on him. Probably a bad idea, considering that all drain is physical if I cast while in the astral.
2) Hit him with my Force 4 Katana shaped Weapon Focus, using my Edged Weapons skill, katana specialization. This would be physical damage, starting at (willpower+3)M. Me Weapon Focus is astrally active, and fully existing, so I can use whatever I've learned in those 6 years of kenjutsu training.
3) Hit him with my Weapon Focus, as above, but using my sorcery skill.
4)Punch him with my astral fist, (willpower)M stun. Using my unarmed combat skill (all those years in the karate dojo).
5) Punch him with my astral fist, as above, but using my sorcery skill instead.

So, how does this work?

In all of the above cases, what I do is the same! I manipulate astral energy at the adept.
This is done using the sorcery skill.
So why does it work with my Edged Weapons/Unarmed Combat skills?
Because of my belief that it must. I have extensive experience with punching/swinging a sword, I know how it works, and what results I can expect. Astral space responds to belief/passion/certainty.
Swining my sword with my skill from the (physical) dojo only works because I believe that it must, and impose my will/belief upon the surroundings.
An experienced magician, or an adept who knows and understands the trick of it, does not need to do this, but can instead manipulate the astral energies directly, through the skill of sorcery.
this does not require or imply ability to use actual spells, only and exclusively understanding of how to manipulate astral energies in specific ways.
Adepts without the 'Magic Power' (which requires them to have paid for a full magician, btw) cannot shape spells. They cannot touch the astral in that way, they cannot force their minds into the necessary shape.

Indeed probably the best description of hw spell casting works was in the old Grimoire (for second edition), on p. 110. A pity that it was not reprinted:

One definition of magic is the ability to go mad in a very specific way for a limited time. From the psychological viewpoint, a spell is an induced neurosis or even a psychosis, created for a split second to channel psychic energy in a particular way.

The basic adept does not have the ability to force his mind to do this.

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