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Author Topic: Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..  (Read 14873 times)

Retread

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2005, 08:45:55 AM »

It's pretty much guaranteed that you'll end up spending all of your money, but if you manage to invest in a vehicle facility, you can pretty much design your own drones at a fraction of the cost. Granted, the logistics of such a facility leave something to be desired. B/R skills are a must for riggers, period.
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Zone

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2005, 09:58:06 AM »

but how many runs did you have to pull off as the 'gettaway gal' before you could get a decent vechile, some place to park it, and now, finally, some drones to help the team?

-RuskiFace the Pirate

Well...a bunch  ;D But then we had the lucky hit.  Everything that could go wrong did, but everybody who should have died didn't and the payoff as a result of all the wrong folks dying and all the runners surviving against the odds was huge.  That's when I bought my house...
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Gabriel

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2005, 10:34:16 AM »

You know, Retread, it's funny you should mention the powered armor thing. We had discussed how that might work several times, but we never were able to pound out the rules that would make it possible. I think the main idea came down to something along the lines of, "Why have a rigged suit of powered armor that would result in the death of the rigger if it were breeched when you can just have a big-hoop drone and keep the rigger in relative safety elswhere?" Of course, I can see some instances when you would want the rigger "on site", but they are pretty limited.

Gabriel
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Retread

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2005, 07:41:39 PM »

Err... Like when you're underwater and Radio signals don't work? Or like when you're in the Renraku arcology and there's a super-genius AI with Electronics (Electronic Warfare) 20 doing the jamming?
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Gabriel

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2005, 09:33:50 AM »

Exactly. I mean, let's be honest, how often do you even GET an AI, much less an insane AI? That's pretty singular. And as for the underwater thing, well I can't see an anthopomorphic suite of battle armor being terribly useful for swimming and handling pressure. I know they have things called K-Suites (I belive they are called) designed for this, but that's the only one's I've heard about. The point was that the instances that a suit like this would be useful were so limited that very few people would develop the things.

Gabriel
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Retread

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2005, 02:24:35 PM »

The JIM suit I designed is treated like a vehicle, it has Smart Materials by design so it costs like 4 times as much to make and you get a massive handling bonus that negates the underwater combat rules. Essentially it was designed with a "smart" memory plastisteel composite that formed fins at its limbs and the locomotion and pressure regulation is provided by more memory plastic that forms artificial muscles that operate on the surface to regulate pressure. The suit is uncomfortable as all hell though, because the pressure regulation relies on the suit having nearly no space so the operator has to be adapted to a liquid medium before use through a breathing tube and the suit compressed itself to fit the wearer like a skin. The reliance on an electric fuel cell has it's limits as well. The suit is like a part plastic-part plastisteel giant person. The suit gives a weird sort of semi-humanoid form. All your quickness checks while using the thing were done as Driving Tests using the Walker vehicle skill.
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"Why do I care? Personally, I think everyone smells a little bit better when their flesh is smouldering..."    ---Dros, Vindictive Fire Mage

Gabriel

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2005, 07:19:11 AM »

Well damn. I wonder if that's the only use of "power armor" in the game? I can imagine some applications in space, but again, a Drone would be much easier and cost-effective to my mind.

Gabriel
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Retread

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2006, 03:54:47 PM »

In space they'd still use a cable, especially since most space assets are too expensive to risk a rival corp or other ne'er-do-wells who would infiltrate a radio signal. The key part of people actually piloting vehicles is that the pilot can't be "jammed"
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"Why do I care? Personally, I think everyone smells a little bit better when their flesh is smouldering..."    ---Dros, Vindictive Fire Mage

Gabriel

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2006, 07:41:07 AM »

Now that's a good point. However, I still think the battle-armor/powered-armor concept will be a long time coming in SR. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like a Cyclone bike once the technology is worked out, just that I think I will be one old elf when it finally gets here. ;)

Gabriel
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Retread

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2006, 02:49:20 PM »

So... re-asserting someone's genetics to make them 21 again and replacing your entire neuro-muscular system with artificial implants implies that there can't be a robotic suit? There are already anthro-form drones, making one big enough to fit a person doesn't seem that hard to me...
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"Why do I care? Personally, I think everyone smells a little bit better when their flesh is smouldering..."    ---Dros, Vindictive Fire Mage

Gabriel

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2006, 06:13:08 AM »

No, I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that with drone technology (and now the wireless matrix :::insert gagging noise here:::) it just seems easier and more efficient to use drones instead of powered armor. I never said it couldn't be done, just that there were some problems with power source and reasons for using them.

ANd keep in mind, however you power a suite, you will have to shield the wearer from the effects of the power source while at the same time scaling things to the point of being compatible with the wearer's body. If you make it too big, you end up with an anthro-drone with a pilot sitting inside of it. Go too small and you get a workable suite of armor that is under-powered. Every layer of material you put over the body will start to interfear with mobility.

Gabriel
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Retread

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2006, 06:27:41 PM »

That's where the Smart Materials come in. You can have an anthroform drone with a pilot that has more maneuverability in this manner. Using smart materials, plastics that bend and flex like realistic tissue that is also bulletproof you can negate the effects. In a specific manner, you could supplement the suits powersource to a lower rate and hook up the suit to be powered by your central nervous system through a vehicle control rig. The smart materials essentially give the "vehicle" an effective handling of -2 which is better  than what a normal person could walk. The power-source is a safe electric fuel cell, described in Rigger 3 as a relatively small size. It's like having a second skin made of bullet-proof plastic that flexes with your own movement.
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"Why do I care? Personally, I think everyone smells a little bit better when their flesh is smouldering..."    ---Dros, Vindictive Fire Mage

Capt_North

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2006, 11:52:46 AM »

I's got no idea whatcha'll taking bout!

though, since its bout cyber tech.. got couple questions raised by the Cybertechnology book i got...

like an internal air tank... what would happen if stray shot hit that.. i couldnt imagine it being very clean, or pleasant, and what would classify as a hit to it?

and the Move By Wire system, would be possible to get a trigger for that like with wired reflexes? and if so wouldnt there be chance of a "failure" or such of the system not working properly and compensating for the seizure?
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Poison

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2006, 11:50:32 PM »

like an internal air tank... what would happen if stray shot hit that.. i couldnt imagine it being very clean, or pleasant, and what would classify as a hit to it?

You are a twisted individual, Captain...
I'd include it as part of the cyber that could fail using the normal failure rules.  Anything that is likely to puncture the air tank would also likely cause major lung trauma (for example if the same damage occurred on someone without the air tank) and the rules don't handle blood filled lungs.
Of course, if it DID fail (or was punctured), it would depend on how full the tank was...

and the Move By Wire system, would be possible to get a trigger for that like with wired reflexes? and if so wouldnt there be chance of a "failure" or such of the system not working properly and compensating for the seizure?
As far as I'm aware, Move By Wire is constantly active.  That's why it has such problems with long-term effects.
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Retread

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Re:Ok.. lets see if i got it this time..
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2006, 10:35:05 AM »

AHEM! With rules taken from Man and Machine, a third edition cybertechnology book, cyberware, bioware and attributes take Stress Points based on damage being taken.

Stress is received on a character when they take damage from a Wound Effect or from exceeding the physical limitations of the ware in general or lack of maintenence.

A wound effect occurs when the highest die roll on the character's Damage Resistance test does not exceed the number of boxes of damage taken (Physical or Stun) The difference between these numbers is the number of Wound Effects taken. For each wound effect, roll 1d6. On a result of 1-2, a cyber-system is damaged, 3-4 bioware, 5-6 and attribute damage is taken.  If the character rolls cyber or bioware system damage but possesse neither, they take no wound effects. When a system is damaged, the GM should determine randomly which systems are affected.

Special note (electrical damage) : For each wound effect caused by electrical damage (tasers, lightning bolts, electric fences), another wound effect is rolled. If that number is a 1 or 2, it causes damage to a cyber-system. Any other result is disregarded.

The book recommends assigning numbers based on essence in "essence slots" That is to say, that muscle replacement I takes up 1 essence slot and thus is damaged if a 1 is rolled on 1d6. However, this might take too much time so a GM is free to determine what is damaged in one way or another. If no slots are "hit" on a die roll, there is no wound effect. When a system is selected, it takes 1-3 Stress points and must make a stress test to check if the system or attribute fails.

To make a stress test, the victim must roll a number of dice based on the system against a target number equal to the number of cumulative stress the system has taken. Only 1 success is necessary to avert system failure:

Cyberware gets a number of dice to resist based on it's grade: 1 for basic, 2 for alpha-grade, 3 for Beta-grade, and 5 for Delta-grade. Bioware is based on grade too: 1 die for cosmetic bioware, 2 for standard, and 4 for cultured. Attributes roll dice equal to half their natural value.

If cyberware fails, it does so in a manner of the GM's choosing: C2 decks malfunction, smartlinks give penalties instead, skillwires cause shaking and tremors, wired reflexes overload, becoming twitchy or cause feedback, cyberlimbs start moving on their own,  internal air-tanks cease up or explode causing (number of hours of air left)S damage resisted by body only, etc. The effects are left up to the GM.

Bioware has specific levels of damage, similar to a condition monitor, each level causing a cumulatively bad effect. If bioware fails a stress test, it is considered at deadly stress. Some bioware simply stops working but causes numerous other problems based on it's previous level of stress. Example, Synthacardium: At light stress, 1 box, it causes headaches and migraines from high blood-pressure. At moderate stress, 3 boxes, it causes hypertension, for every athletics test made, roll 2d6 on a 2, a stroke occurs. At Serious stress, 6 boxes, the character has chest pains and is afflicted with a permanent light stun wound until the stress is fixed, at deadly stress, the implant fails and provides no bonuses.

Attribute failure can be any number of things, pulling muscles, twisting ankles, a migraine, disarrhythmia, reduced inhibitions, concussions, punctured lungs, broken bones, delerium, coma. These effects are up to the GM and can lead to some interesting situations. They should affect the specific attribute though.

Whenever ANY system takes 10 stress points, they automatically fail.

When any system fails, it must be fixed with surgery and will not heal naturally. Attribute and bioware stress heal over time naturally. Cyberware that hasn't failed can be fixed with routine maintenence. Some cyberware may require surgery to fix, an internal air-tank comes to mind...

This system is far more complicated than most GMs and players are willing to deal with, but it can be implemented fluently if the GM practices with enough imaginary scenarios to get the rules down pat.
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"Why do I care? Personally, I think everyone smells a little bit better when their flesh is smouldering..."    ---Dros, Vindictive Fire Mage
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