Shadowrun Pub
Shadowrun RPG => SR3 (Shadowrun 3rd Edition) General Discussion => Topic started by: ROOTless on January 29, 2007, 02:08:13 AM
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Has anybody had people in their groups using skillsofts extensively?
in particular, the Skillsoft Jukebox seems... weakly described, and is giving me a headache right now.
From the price, it clearly has need of an amount of memory, but how much, and for what purposes?
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I had a player create a PC who used a TON of skillsofts once. THe thing was, his skillwire setup only had enough memory to hold something like 4 skills at any given time. So e got a Jukebox. The way it works is that the Jukebox can hold an additional amount of memory seperate from your skillwires, thus creating an extra resevoire of memory accessible to your skillwires. So if your skillwires can hold say 1000 MP (just as a round, working number) and you have 6 skillsofts using 200 MP a piece, you can run 5 of then through your skillwires. That leaves you with 1 skillsoft using 200 MP of memory that you pretty much have to keep in your pocket. Now, if you get a Skillwire Jukebox that has say 600 MP, you could slot 3 more skillwires of the same sive into it, and use them just as if you had expanded the memory on your skillwires.
Think of it as a thumb-drive for skillwires. You can access and use the memory on it, and however many skillsofts can fit onto it and not exceed your skillwire's rating. After all, loading a Rating 8 Pistol skill into a Jukebox will still not let you use it on a Rating 5 Skillwire rig.
Gabriel
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Excellent. That's a new place for 'im to spend a few yen.
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You know, if you really wanted to toss some Nuyen into it, have the Jukebox installed in a limb. Hide it from prying eyes, and no need for an external datajack and fiberoptic cable.
Gabriel
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Yeah, Ruski and I toyed around with this idea, but we never really wanted to introduce it to our players- I mean, they have a hard enough time trying to max out thier character speeds and everything for combat munchkins. I didn't have the heart to tell them that if they installed skillwires, they could be good at anything they wanted as long as they paid for the chip.
We do work a little with memsofts- and linguasofts. But those are mostly for out-of-town runs, where we need to speak afrikans or arabic.
-kv
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Just the math involved in keeping track of this system turned off all of my players on this particular piece of chrome. I'd love to have a PC with an "A" Priority in Resources and only a skillwire and multiple chipjack as cybernetics. You know, an ex-research subject for skillwire experiments who "quit" his job after slotting a really high rating stealth chip. Microsoft Stealth 6.2 complete with Sneaky Bastard Plug-In.
Gabriel
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Okay, I've always wondered how it worked when you had a skill rating in something that you slotted a chip for- does it augment your skill rating, or replace it?
-kv
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It replaces it. Just remember, originally, you couldn't use any pools when you use a skillsoft. I believe Matrix has some chrome that lets you get past that, maybe an Expert Driver? Anyway, If you have a Pistols 3 and you slot a Pistols 5, you have a Pistol Rating of 5, not 8. The skillsoft always overrides the natural learning curve, after all, that's how it is designed. The skillsoft overrides what you think you know about something, over-writing it with what the chip does know. So no matter what you do know about the slotted skill, the chip is always in charge.
Gabriel
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Okay, that's cool. That'd be a good balance- so I don't have to worry about characters with skill ratings of 12 or 13.
What's the maximum rating that you can have skillwires?
How does the expert driver work? (rules-wise, not anatomy-wise)
-kv
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Skillsofts can have options: These options are similar to program options described in the Matrix Sourcebook. They modify the cost and size of a skillsoft but add bonuses. For example, the Customized option makes it so that the skillsoft will only work for the person that it is designed for, but it will reduce the size, double the cost, and improve its effective rating. Skillsofts can also have viruses and defects too. Pool-use is allowed with the DIMAP option (Direct Interpretive Memory Augmentation Programming) These options are described in Cannon Companion along with some rules for BTL usage.
The Skillsoft jukebox is just a box with chipslots which you can slot different chips into, the description should say how many slots it has. You need a datajack to slot into, however, so someone will know you're using one.
Skillwires are listed as having no maximum rating save for the essence limit. More skillwires = more essence loss. However, skillwires can essentially have a virtually unlimited power processor allowing larger (higher MP) skillsofts to be run. Program options usually do not put any extra strain on a
The Chipjack Expert Driver is placed inside a particular Chipjack (no jukebox usage) and adds a dice pool known as the Task Pool equal to its rating. Therefore, pistols 6 with DIMAP 3 on a Chipjack with Expert Driver 3 would be allowed to roll up to 12 dice on the first action (6 for skill rating + 3 for combat pool from DIMAP + 3 for Pistols Task Pool) If the chipjack is multi-slotted, the Task Pool can be used on any of the skillsofts attached to that chipjack that are loaded into the skillwire processor.
You may only have a number of skill ratings equal to your skillwires rating working at one time, however. This number is the ASIST rating, the total processing size is known as the pulse rating. The pulse rating can be changed with a simple implant surgery, whereas upgrading skillwires requires drastic invasive surgery. Skillwires are incompatible with Reflex Recorders, obviously. The Pluscode option reduces the demand on ASIST by its rating. Therefore, an Athletics 6 Pluscode 5 would cost the same as a rating 11 General skillsoft but would only count as rating 1 when accounting for ASIST demand. However, pluscode does not reduce the requirement for the minimum amount of ASIST rating. The previous example could not run on a set of rating 5 skillwires, but those wires could run 5 copies of Skill 5 Pluscode 4 softs.
A min-maxer might take a dedicated implant chipjack with Expert Driver 3 with Skillwires 6 and a skillsoft such as Swords 12 (DIMAP 6, Implant, Customized) The implant option would cut the ASIST demand in half allowing a rating 6 skillwire system to use a rating 12 chip (Implant allows this, but pluscode does not, as the chip and soft are hardwired into the chipjack) the DIMAP allows 6 combat pool to be used, and customization reduces the actual size but adds 50% to the cost and gives a +1 die bonus to attack. Therefore the user could roll 21 (12 + 6 + 3 + 1) dice in their first roll.
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Holy crap. That is pretty min-maxed.
-kv
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Just the math involved in keeping track of this system turned off all of my players on this particular piece of chrome. I'd love to have a PC with an "A" Priority in Resources and only a skillwire and multiple chipjack as cybernetics. You know, an ex-research subject for skillwire experiments who "quit" his job after slotting a really high rating stealth chip. Microsoft Stealth 6.2 complete with Sneaky Bastard Plug-In.
That's almost exactly the character my player's building. ;)
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LOL, see. Tell me I can't anticipate players. ;)
And all of that stuff Retread posted, yeah, that's why my players stayed the hell away from Skillwires. It got WAY too in-depth (a.k.a. stupid) to be playable. Too many options. Too much redundant informtation. Too many ways to min-max.
Gabriel
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Keep in mind that this particular soft has a design size of 2187, costing 699840 nuyen retail with a street index of 3.5 costing characters 2449440 nuyen on the street. That's not even including the hardware involved. Heck, the blank chip to hold the program will cost 10935 nuyen alone :D I'd say you're safe from this kind of problem
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You may have a point there, Retread.
Gabriel
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Yeah, but especially in Character creation, that sort of min-maxing IS possible. I mean, I try to give my runners options, like wired reflexes, boosted reflexes, or move by wire, but for the most part, they all go after wired reflexes- more bang for thier buck, and they can upgrade, which is something you can't do with boosted reflexes.
How hard is it to start off with skillwires and some chips- with priority A resources, you could have a wide variety of chips, and probably not even need to buy any for a couple of runs.
I have another thought- is there any possibility that you can have more than one juke-box installed?
-kv
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Jukeboxes aren't installed, they're like an iPod for your skillsofts. Essentially, it's a small computer with slots for extra chips. Presumably you can download from the chips to the internal memory in the Jukebox. For example, a 1000 MP, dual-slotted jukebox would cost (2*1000*20) 40,000 nuyen. You can hold 1000 MP worth of skillsofts in addition to slotting 2 extra chips. A three-slot would cost 60000 and so on. (I personally feel that this is slightly skewed, but I imagine that the download speed through the link more than makes up for the price.) A jukebox provides more room and allows for easily switching skillsofts but it is also noticeable, relatively fragile, and can be stolen quite easily. I'd recommend that players get an armored casing for it, following the similar rules for cyberdeck case customization in Matrix.
You can have multiple chipjacks, but it's better to buy a multi-slot chipjack. Also, a datajack doubles as a chipjack but it cannot have an Expert Driver.
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So, if you have 3 Jukeboxes plugged into a 4-slot chipjack and each Jukebox has 3 slots, you have a ton of skill options. It' will cost, but there you go.
Gabriel
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Yes, but you also have 3 wires dangling from your head (or head analogue) and someone will know what's going on :D
Personally, I'd go for the knowsoft link first and then work on the skillwires. You wouldn't believe how useful some knowsofts are in particular situations, especially for deckers, who can pirate knowsofts and skillsofts from the Matrix.
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You are assuming that a datajack/chipjack needs to go in the head. That's not true. It's easiest to put them there, but you can run the connections anywhere on your body. A sneaky cobber could have a few dj's mounted in various spots on the body (armpit, spinal cord, chest, wrists, etc.) and then just have the Jukeboxes in various pockets. Remeber the eye datajack? Not pretty, but also not really ever looked for.
I've heard of riggers having DJ's in the wrists for ease of interface so they can wrest as a normal passenger would and their DJ's are interfaced right there. No dangling cords to catch on anything.
Gabriel
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Yeah, and if you can run an induction datajack to your fingertips (where it's typically placed), then it's possible and even likely that a datajack or other sort of wires could be re-routed to exit at mroe comfortable locations.
Although, in my group it's long been a house rule that if you have smartlink cyberwear, it's a wrist-mount, but if you buy the goggles, you have to drag the wire down to the gun.
-kv
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Um... there is no datajack accosiated with a smartlink. As part of the system, an induction pad is integrated into the palm of your hand. All of the signal traffic routes through that. No wires required.
Gabriel
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I was saying that as part of the cyberwear, we're always had it done that way- but what about if you just buy the goggles?
-kv
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If you just buy the goggles and not the gun attachment? Then you have some neat goggles. 8)
Gabriel
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No, if you buy the goggles, and the gun attachment, how do you connect the two?
Jerk. Buttface.
-kv
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OH. Well, obviously with a cable running to the microcomputer. That's just obvious. ;)
Gabriel
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I dunno if this topic has died yet, but I figured I'd comment on it...
I believe Mercy and I played an online game once when I had a character that had the Skillsoft Jukebox, and yes, it is very expensive. But I felt that it was well worth the investment. I mean I spent just about everybit of the mil I started with, but I essentially had every skill I could possibly need. And trust me, running with Mercy (no offense buddy), especially by yourself, you need an arsenol of skills.
Bottom line, if you have a cool GM it can be a lot of fun, if you have an asshole GM it can make for a big headache.
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Yeah, I would make it a big headache. ;D
-kv
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ANd you want me in one of your games why??? You know, it's a good thing you're a decker and not a PR rep. ;)
Gabriel
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Good thing. And I'm a conspiracy theorist decker, not your normal, run-of-the-mill decker kid.
-kv
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You need to start watching Justice League Unlimited. The Question would make a great SR character.
Gabriel
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Given how little the Justice League is related to skillsoft jukeboxes, I think we're gone too far off Topic here. Locked.