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[Pimp-Boy 2000]

I think I'm going to stick with Shadowrun 3rd, myself. I have found that some of the name-changes (Decker to Hacker, for example) were unnecessary and generally took away from the system instead of adding something to it, that the new rules system is clunky and doesn't work very well . . . and a few other things, besides. The horrid editiing, in particular, makes my eyes bleed.

I guess it does have a few redeeming qualities, but I'm at a loss to name what they are. Say, does anyone know how well SR4 is selling?

[Ingo Monk]

My group seems to like it.  I actually like the simplicity of the system, we spend less time looking up rules and more time gaming.  The system seems very streamlined to me.  The name changes don't bother me, it's the same thing just done differently.  I don't think anything was taken away from the game, it's more like a different game with the same ideas and the same setting (to me anyway).

Since when did you start playing SR3?

[Pimp-Boy 2000]

Since when did you start playing SR3?

A few months back (right after I got SR4, or thereabouts), I got the basic book and a few of the sourcebooks (many of the ones you might consider to be the "core" sourcebooks, which I believe I was asking about here at some point), and I ran a few one- and two-shot games with them. I liked them quite a bit, but at the moment I'm a player in a GURPS science fiction campaign, so all my GMing stuff is on the back burner.

I do like the "dated" feel of the 3rd Edition, as compared to the "up-to-date" feel of the 4th Edition, being a Blade Runner and Fallout fan and all that.

[Ouija]

I like to get multiple opinions about a topic before making a decision.  You bring up valid points, I think.  I just need to hurry up and get at least the SR4 core book and give it a read through.  I too enjoy 3rd edition, but you have to understand it took me awhile to switch from 2nd to 3rd as well.  So it's not entirely new for me to be hesitant.  I think a lot of people steer clear of changes because they like things that are familiar. 

[Gilliam]

I've embraced SR4 fully, my only complaints with it are yes, the editing, and also the gymnastics that the copyright and printing has been going through.  It's had a horrible time getting books out, period.  Other than that, I find the system is more conducive to "winging" a few rolls here and there, the fixed target number makes it easier to perform mental GM calculations as to what a certain action can require.  It's nice to have magic, decking, and combat all using the same methodology for a roll.

Also... if you really get into it, the SR4 matrix rules are WAAAAY more playable.  They lost some of the detail that was in SR3's, but it's now possible to have a decker's turns integrated with a combat situation on a pass-by-pass basis without the game coming to a screeching, exploding, cavern-collapsing, halt.

From a GM-ing aspect, and also as a player, I really enjoy the variable magic/resonance attribute.  It's fun to play a magically active character who isn't really all there yet, who has some work ahead of him to throw around the truly serious mojo.  SR3 mages seemed to get catapulted into some real destructive potential, like, in their first run!  You can still get a character like that is 4th... but he'll have absolutely nothing else.

The Vehicle system runs a little more elegantly now... no more maneuver scores being recalculated every turn.  It works with a set of ranges now... to your intended target.  Opposed tests between you and the other car will move the range a level closer, or a level farther.  Dice pool modifiers apply for traffic and road conditions, as always.  I really like the new vehicle system. 

The Wireless nature of the matrix in four also has it's moments, both good and bad.  It allows deckers to wreak havoc out in the normal world, but all that's done is put more IC out there... this time, running on personal 'links.  It's still possible to have a segregated network for a corporate building, it makes sense that the security cameras might still be wired, or were purposely installed that way to ensure data security.

yeah, so my only beefs with SR4 are the piss-poor editing (which I can work around... barely), and the vehicle list being so God Damn short.  I mean... c'mon, even the one in the back of SR3 was longer!

[Ouija]

I still haven't had a chance to sit down and even read the core book yet.  But after today I'm off the next two days, so I'm sure I'll spend some quality time catching up on my reading 

[Ouija]

So as I mentioned in my post in the Corp section, I finally started reading.  So far I've been pleased, but I haven't even made it to the major changes yet.  In fact I'm only on page 35 LIFE ON THE RUN.  But I always enjoy catching up on history 

[kv]

Yeah, my problem was that the lists for everything were so short. Two columns of cyberwear? One and a half of bioware? Of course, they have further books now, so I think that helps solve the problem.

  -kv

[Gilliam]

yeah, the core book really felt like they were expecting to publish major sourcebooks in pretty short order.  Unfortunately, with all the trouble they had with the printers, they only ended up getting Street Magic out the door (source-book wise) before WizKids pulled the plug.  Luckily, this german company bought the rights, and we've got augmentation out now... with lots of cool cyber and bio bits, some  nanoware, and even some odd rules for buying genetic enhancements at character creation using build points.  This company seems interested more in the GAME than the bottom line. 

an another note: why the heck did SR end up with WizKids anyway?

[Ouija]

Well according to their PR WizKids purchased the rights to Shadowrun and Battletech for profitability.  I did not know WizKids pulled the plug all together and yet another company has the rights now.  So where did FanPro go during all this?

[kv]

Fanpro didn't go anywhere. WizKids actually had some of the people that started Fasa, so it was a logical move, and now a smaller company wants to run the game. WizKids can focus more on the slightly more lucrative minatures market.

Fanpro (as far as I know) still does all the publishing overseas (especially in Germany).

  -kv

[Ouija]

What's this German company?

[Ingo Monk]

FanPro is based in Germany.

Short for Fantasy Productions

[Ouija]

Don't I feel stupid.  And here I thought all along that I had missed something, yet I knew it all along. Thanks for clearing that up. 

[kv]

Oh, and just so you know, this thread was started by the Pub Pariah. Speaking his name aloud draws his attention, and you don't want that.

Sad thing is, I agreed with him on some of the name-changes that didn't make any sense (decker to hackers). And I was sad to see riggers go the way of the dodo and the vacuum tube.

But the more I play SR4, the more I find that it's a MUCH easier system to teach to people. Character creation by a points system is still a pain, and I would prefer the priority system, even with it's unnecessary complexities, but I can deal with that.

Having people know how much dice to use on thier own? Priceless.

  -kv