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Author Topic: paddin  (Read 147074 times)

Ingo Monk

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Re:paddin
« Reply #645 on: August 26, 2004, 05:40:12 PM »

Hehe

On our company network I forget what they use.  We have a computer in the tech department which runs on a DSL line.  Needless to say we don't get any viruses back here (me and my supervisor use hotmail cuz our company e-mail system is all fubar...which I've told our network admin several times of but he doesn't seem to care).

When we get systems in for repair, half the ones with virus problems get viruses through P2P file sharing (WinMX, Morpheus, etc.).  The other half we can't trace the source, either e-mail or downloading something directly.  Speaking of which I once had to download a driver for a modem from this one company.  The virus scan on the system picked up a trojan in the driver files.   Hehe, anyway...

Aren't both Norton & McAfee supposed to scan e-mails and their attachments?

Sometimes we use TrendMicro's sysclean package to scan and delete viruses.  My supervisor has this virus scan made by Microsoft that he got from his buddy that works there.  Supposedly it scans and cleans viruses, and will rebuild Windows system files if they get damaged.  He also says that the virus scanner costs $10,000.  I think that last part is a load of crap, but maybe you know better.  He also won't give me a copy.  This is all from a guy who talks about how great he is, but has been working here for over 7 years and makes really shitty money.  Anyway...
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Ruski

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Re:paddin
« Reply #646 on: August 26, 2004, 06:59:12 PM »

Really it depends on the E-Mail client you use. if you use hotmail, it has McAffee built right into it. if you have an account with Earthlink, they also have a group license with McAffee. (i would expect this has something do do with cost, and not so much an indication of efficency) so, if you use thease clients you e-mail gets scanned before you get it. now, let me get on my soapbox for a bit.
*slight grinding sound as soapbox is pulled from corner*
*creaking sound as RuskiFace stands on soapbox*
let's talk about Outlook Express.
Outlook = the devil.
outlook is terrible. if you use outlook, you should stop.
outlook is a nice little mail program that memorises your POP3 and SMPT login addresses, and will get your mail for you while letting you skip the tedious type in your user name and password routine that most of us have hard wired into our fingertips. (i can loginto hotmail in my sleep in 0.02 seconds, but that's not really part of this) anyways, the BEST part of outlook is that it downloads all of your files into memory and opens up all of your attachments automaticly when you sign on. (saves load time) that's a bad thing if people e-mail you hurtfull things, like they sometimes do. so, if you have a firewall set up (ither the default thing in XP, or zonealarm, or the one that comes with ither norton systemworks or mcaffee suite) you are protected from everything, all of your incomeing files are scanned. unless you set up outlook. outlook skips the firewall and runs all the viruses before you can blink. so... if you set up a P2P, and you are opening your stolen files without scanning them first, then norton, or mcaffee will probibly find them in about 20 seconds (if the virus dosn't kill the antivirus (about half of them do)) when it hits the kernal. now, in outlooks defence, it is POSSIBLE to set it up properly, so that it dosn't automaticly download everything, but it slows down the process. and it is possible to set up norton to check the things that outlook downloads but it takes some know how, and some effort. (bouth in short supply) and if it's set up PERFECT what happens is it'll come up and say 'this file isn't safe. don't download it (procede) (stop)' if you hit the 'open it anyways' button it'll still infect your system.
so, if they get an infected file that they are expecting Priceforyourwidget.doc, and it says it's infected, but they need the price 9 out of 10 monkies will open it, and then complaine that the scanner didn't clean their information instead of e-mailing back the guy they got it from in the first place, letting them know they are running an infected machine.
*long intake of breath*
so..... there are so many ways to skip the virus scanner that everyone uses that mostly it's ineffective.
*RuskiFace gets off of soapbox, and moves over to his pedistal*
*beam of light shines down from above*
Okay, this is what i do on my network.
Delete Outlook from every computer. no one is aloud to have it.
they all have to type in their login name and passwords.
i set up norton to run individually on each computer, and it sends an alert if it's deactivated to my computer, so i can go yell at whoever is trying to download crap. there are firewalls. (2) i have a hardwired firewall on the router that stops active attacks from random peeps in the wild blue yonder. i also have each computer configured with it's own software firewall that yells anytime something trys to spread through the network. i also have (as backup, because things will alwies leak through firewalls) two individual computers with full permission to everything constantly scanning the network for viruses, and deleteing them, or sending an alert to the systems (that stops whoever is there from doing anything untill i come yell at them) if it's more infected than a remote machine can handle. even with this, about once a week someone will install a P2P, or install some adware that invites a virus into the system, and i'll have to go take 20 minutes to fix it. but i know about it about 5 minutes after it happens.
does all that work?
it's been a year and a half sence the last ocasion where i experenced dataloss and had to go to a backup. (another lecture all together)
(i've worked there for two years. and i implamented the constant scan a year and a half ago, upon the discovery of the last data eating virus)
there are thirty systems on my network. not very big. and my methods take a lot of time from me. (it is my job) and there is a little network overhead to it (constant remote scanning does slow down network traffic a bit) and people sometimes complaine that they don't like haveing to memorise my quirkie e-mail passwords that i give them, and haveing to type them in all the time. (i do let them write them down though).
is it worth it?
*shrug* i think it is.
*RuskiFace steps down off of pedistal*
*slideing sounds as pedistal and soapbox are moved offstage*
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Jester

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Re:paddin
« Reply #647 on: August 26, 2004, 07:04:40 PM »

<looks at ruski and ingo all in a daze>
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Ingo Monk

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Re:paddin
« Reply #648 on: August 26, 2004, 07:11:51 PM »

D00d Ruski.  I once again state: 'you rock!' :pirate:

That's fraggin kewl.  I wish our admin did stuff like that.  Nyea, I don't plan on being here much longer anyway so I guess I won't worry about it much.  At least we got our system in the tech department working the way it should.  

While I got your attention let me ask you a couple of questions:

1. What's the benefit of having a Corporate Edition virus scan vs. a retail one?
2. Does Norton Systemworks actually do what it's supposed to do?  My supervisor despises Norton with a passion, which probably influenced me.  Though I did experience what I described earlier a couple of times.  Anyway he says it causes more problems that it fixes, and once you install it you can't fully uninstall it without editing the registry.
3. Truthfully and unbiased - how do McAfee and Norton compare to each other in ability and functionality?

Err.. I'll think of something else later.  I really like learning stuff ;)
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Ruski

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Re:paddin
« Reply #649 on: August 26, 2004, 08:01:20 PM »

Yea, Norton Corperate edition is SOOOOOO worth the extra cred. i forced my company to buy it. it's what allows me to have remote access and controll over all the individual copies of norton running on every individual's machine, and it's what lets me recieve notice when someone is doing something that they shouldn't be. it was a bitch to install, no lie there, and the individual updates still don't work right on half the computers (i haven't taken the hour each to set it up, but it is on my list of things to do) but it's running, and the ones that 'sweep' the network, yea, that's a feature of corperate edition too. (and thoes ones are running updated virus defenitions) mostly, the end result is that the corperate edition is 'managable' the home edition is 'stand alone' it's actually the same program, just more controll, and if you know what you are doing, it works better with more controll.

bottom line between norton and mcaffee is almost identical. if you had two systems with the same virus, norton would find and stop it, and mcaffee would find and stop it. basicly it comes down to what you are comfortable with. if you know how to set up mcaffee correctly, it'll do a better job, if you know how to set up norton correctly, it'll do a better job. if you could set them bouth up correctly, then norton is a little faster on their responce time, but mcaffee is a little less expencive. more cost = more service. at my work that bill goes to someone else, and not my bank account, so i had them shell out the extra cred for it. (i'm lucky in that i'm totally badass, and the boss will do anything i tell him to with the comptuers, because i never do anything wrong.) (i've actually done stuff wrong, but i fixed it, and it was long ago, when i was 7 and still learning how to work this stuff)

systemworks does what it's suppose to do. it makes your system more stable. it will examine your windows install, and fix the things that are causeing memory leaks, lost clusters, wasted space, and general cleanup. it's not really necessary. i could do the same work that norton systemworks does by hand, but it would take me about 10 hours pr. machine. (ocasionally i have to do it anyways, but i do have other things to do) systemworks will run, by it's self, and 'tidy up' a system, clean out the registry, defrag the hard drive, optimize the swap space, etc. and it'll take about two hours to do it. and i don't have to be there watching it while it does.
is it hard to install? you bet your hoop it is. with any program that is THAT integrated into the system, it'll be hard to get rid of. think of it this way though, your OS has to run every peace of software you throw at it, but it dosn't have to do a good job of it. Norton has to be able to go in and fine tune each program with each of the random ways that they infringe on the system kernal, and while letting them continue to run, make it so that they play nicely with the other programs that are installed. that's a very in depth and integrated process. takes quite a bit of looking into and understanding of how the machine works, and how the OS works, and how every program works and how they all work together, and how what one program does effects all the other programs, and what you can do to make the programs work better, so, not only is norton re-writeing your OS, but it's rewriteing your internet browser, your video games, your network, your virus scanning software (even if it's not norton's own software) and everything else.
now, if he had problems with it i can automaticly tell you several things:
1) he was running an outdated copy OR a pirated copy.
2) he was trying to do several things at once, like update the system with system updates, while flashing the bios and running an adware scan.
norton systemworks is 'polish' it isn't a trencher. after your system is set up, and updated, and everything is copasetic, you run systemworks when everything is perfect, and it'll make things more perfect. you have it do that, and it'll make your system so stable that you can run a system constantly (without ever shutting it off) for months at a time. pretty good considering that XP will crash on it's own if you leave it running for three days solid, and not do anything to it. (yea, that dam screensaver and power-plus mode will kill a system every time if you don't set them up right)
i think the biggest problem comes from people trying to get norton to fix things it can't. if your system has a virus and a ton of spyware, norton systemworks will die a horrable screaming death. it's like trying to cure cancer by putting a bandaid on it. even if that is the most amazing bandaid, with quadruple strenght antibiotics, and nanobots, it won't cure cancer. you have to use it for what it's ment for, something to run in the background every now and again to keep your system running, and keep downtime to a minimum.
*shrug* however, i'm not going to say that your system admin is retarded for not likeing it. if he's a system admin he probibly knows what he's doing. and perhaps he likes takeing the system registry apart by hand (it's kinda a power trip) and he can probibly do a better job than norton, (norton is just an automation after all, and nothing will work as well as a human mind for fixing problems) however, i use it to save time. and on my own computer i do edit my own registry, and my system does run better than everyone elses, but i put more time into it, and i have more controll over it. if i did that to everyone, it would work better, but i'd be there 24/7, and i'd have no time to fix or play with my new (to me) red corvette.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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ROOTless

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Re:paddin
« Reply #650 on: August 27, 2004, 12:46:43 AM »

<snip>
and people sometimes complaine that they don't like haveing to memorise my quirkie e-mail passwords that i give them, and haveing to type them in all the time. (i do let them write them down though).
is it worth it?
*shrug* i think it is.
*RuskiFace steps down off of pedistal*
*slideing sounds as pedistal and soapbox are moved offstage*
-RuskiFace the Pirate

OK, outlook = bad, no argument there from me.
But you write their passwords?
And they're allowed to write them down?

Doesn't standard security procedures say never to write down a password, and that not even the sysop should know them (after all, sysop can just go in and change them if necessary, even overriding build-in system demands on passwords)?
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Gabriel

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Re:paddin
« Reply #651 on: August 27, 2004, 05:42:00 AM »

<looks at ruski and ingo all in a daze>

Yeah... what Jester said...

Gabriel
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Jester

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Re:paddin
« Reply #652 on: August 27, 2004, 06:26:53 AM »

<leaves this thread till there is a subject change>
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Ruski

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Re:paddin
« Reply #653 on: August 27, 2004, 09:30:39 AM »

Yea. it's my loophole. everyone has things that they feel are really important and are anal about, me, i figure all the security i installed is enough, and i punish the people enough as it is, letting them write down the passowrds i give them (so it's not something a bot would be able to guess and test into the system) is the one thing i let them get off easy on.
*shrug*
if i was protecting more important inside information i would probibly step that up a notch too, but as it is, i don't care if someone were to break into the office, and check our e-mail because if they did that, the on site secruity would have to deal with it, and that's not my problem.
-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Re:paddin
« Reply #654 on: August 27, 2004, 01:32:10 PM »

Ah.

Physical Security's Problem, you only deal with Matrix Security. ;)
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Ingo Monk

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Re:paddin
« Reply #655 on: August 27, 2004, 06:31:10 PM »

norton systemworks is 'polish' it isn't a trencher. after your system is set up, and updated, and everything is copasetic, you run systemworks when everything is perfect, and it'll make things more perfect. you have it do that, and it'll make your system so stable that you can run a system constantly (without ever shutting it off) for months at a time. pretty good considering that XP will crash on it's own if you leave it running for three days solid, and not do anything to it. (yea, that dam screensaver and power-plus mode will kill a system every time if you don't set them up right)

Actually I don't turn my system off at home (XP Pro) and I haven't had it crash on me.  Granted I have to restart after I update software or install something new, but I've had it running for at least a month now without a crash or restart.  Though I set it so that my system doesn't go to standby and it doesn't power down the hard drives (the only thing it does is turn off the monitor).  

I have Diskeeper Pro and I have it defrag my hard drives every other day (the scheduling thing with that is sooo bad-ass).  If you don't have that, get it.  If you can get it for 'free', even better.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2004, 06:32:04 PM by Ingo Monk »
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Ruski

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Re:paddin
« Reply #656 on: August 30, 2004, 07:51:38 AM »

*grin* good job Ingo. it's certanly possible to make a system stable without norton, i just think it helps quite a bit.
you are running some nice software in place of it, and the automated scheduleing is awsome (norton has it too).
*shrug* to each their own.

-RuskiFace the Pirate
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Zone

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Re:paddin
« Reply #657 on: September 23, 2004, 07:23:16 AM »

Okay Jester a change of subject and a topic close to your heart:

Associated Press
Twinkies Maker Seeking Ch. 11 Protection


Interstate Bakeries Corp., the nation's largest wholesaler baker whose products include Twinkies and Wonder Bread, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection early Wednesday. The company also named a new chief executive.

The company said it had a commitment, subject to bankruptcy court approval, from JP Morgan Chase Bank to provide $200 million to pay suppliers, employees and other operating costs during the reorganization. It said it would continue operating its bakeries, outlet stores and distribution centers.

"IBC has some of the most recognizable and popular baked breads and sweet goods brands in the nation," Alvarez said in a statement. "By filing for protection under Chapter 11 and obtaining...financing, the company should have the liquidity, time and resources necessary to thoroughly identify, assess and address the issues that will enable this company to be successful in the future."

Last month the company missed a second deadline for filing its annual report, after request an extension in May because of a series of investigations into its reserve fund for workers' compensation claims.

The report was due Aug. 27, but the company said it was still not finished because of problems with a financial system it started using in June, uncertainty over results for the current quarter, and questions about its ability to pay its loans this year.

It also said there was a possibility that auditors would include a paragraph in the report saying "there may be substantial doubt about the company's ability to continue as a going concern."

Interstate, with annual sales of $3.5 billion, operates more than 50 bakeries and employs about 34,000, including 600 of them in the Kansas City area.

The company's shares closed at $3.27 on the New York Stock Exchange Tuesday, down 13 cents.


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Jester

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Re:paddin
« Reply #658 on: September 23, 2004, 08:12:57 AM »

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!  we must save the twinkies! Everyone go out and start buying as many twinkies as possible!  :'(
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Ruski

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Re:paddin
« Reply #659 on: September 23, 2004, 08:47:48 AM »

i told you redirecting all thoes shipments to your house would eventually get back to haunt you...

-RuskiFace the Pirate
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