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[kv]

Well, one of my good friends- part of the reason we get together when we do every month- has discovered the joys of wired reflexes and min-maxing. So he has said ork tank with wired reflexes level 3, and ambidexterity 8 edge, so he can actually fire two grenade launchers at the same time, so he can fire the grenade launchers 6-8 times each initiative.

It's killed the game, at least this last one, because everything slows down, he gets to blow things up six times, and then we get to climb through the rubble/pick through the body parts or whatever.

I think it's finally time that I start doing intiative passes right. We've been functioning on the second edition principle that everyone goes in numerical order, so the first pass at 36 goes first, and then if no one else goes before 26, that guy gets to go again before everyone else. And then again at 16 if no one else goes.

Technically, the pass should go through EVERYONE'S first initiative pass first, and then everyone's second pass, and then everyone's third pass (and then a fourth pass if there's still time).

I don't know if that would make a difference, though.

  -kv

[Gabriel]

The initiative pass architecture in 3rd Edition is stupid. If I have wired reflexes, I SHOULD go faster than anyone else, not just go longer than anyone else. All of the literature talks about street sammies who are on the wire going faster than a normal man can even grab his gun, much less draw it and shoot. So having everyone go on pass 1 & 2 before moving on to the "fast" guy on pass 3 & 4 is so backwords that I don't know how anyone could think it's realistic in the slightest. The entire point of wired reflexes is to go first, and go fast.

Gabriel

[kv]

Yeah... but in our group, we have a bunch of retards with wired reflexes... so the retards go first, go again, go a third time, and then the people who bothered to be good at anything... well, they get to go finally.

I mean, I made a mage because I wanted to learn more about the magic system. But in order to ever be able to do anything, I had to make a mage who took physad skills, and then put half of his magic rating into 'path of the mage' so that I could even keep up.

The thing is, I'm tired of a group that does this stuff too- I really want to start playing games where we're able to attempt to do the 'no kill' thing, without a manic psychotic cutting up civilians to alleviate boredom.

Hell, I might suggest we switch game systems, just so I don't have to deal with it.

  -kv

[ROOTless]

The initiative pass architecture in 3rd Edition is stupid. If I have wired reflexes, I SHOULD go faster than anyone else, not just go longer than anyone else.

Actually, when you think about it (and things last for more than one round...) it even out.
Take a bunch of actions in the end of round one, take a bunch of action in the beginning of round 2, not a huge difference. Other than that, I agree, I just also find initiative booster a pest.
What K_V describes, sounds suspeciously like my very first SR group, back in the first edition.
Except that back then, our initiative monkeys were dwarves with MMGs.
I got to act once - I think - in combat during the entire storyline. Against a toxic shaman (I played a mage) - and with none of the gun bunnies present.

Other than that, why on earth are you even bothering to try with such a huge group? split them into 2 - or even 3 - groups, there are easily enough people for it, and the more people, the less room for roleplay (as opposed to roleplay aka. rollplay/ruleplay) in my experience. Also, it's hell on the GM.

[Gabriel]

Exaclty. Of course, you could always have Deus release some airborn neurotoxins into the air supply. Always remember, Deus is a program based on social interaction and therefore has a long history of watching and manipulating people. It is safe to say that he may well have the ventelation shafts rigged with chemical sparyers for crowd control. Lure the runners into an area, then hit them with the neurotoxin. The PC's with wired reflexes find that by the next day, they can't move like they used to as the adrenal pumps and chemical enhancers have decayed and need to be replaced.

Solves the problem without killing the PC's. It also adds another dimension to the game: seeing your PC taken apart peice by piece. Deus is experimenting with everyone inside the Arcology, use that in the game and start having him "play" with the PC's a bit.

Gabriel

[kv]

Well, Ruski is running this game, and he and I kind of talked about it before we got started, because I think we were both noticing the trend. I told him my method for keeping PCs slightly easier to manage- I let them pick the edges, and I pick the flaws.

But he said that he didn't want to do that, because the one friend who was creating the character (the one we were discussing about being overpowered) had a certain concept in mind, and he didn't want to mess with that. I was a little dissapointed, because I don't think the 'dark secret' flaw balances out the ambidexterity 8 edge. Although it could still turn out okay, because he also took the dependant 4 flaw, which I told him how Gabe, Ruski and I talked about that, but he took it anyway.

Maybe it'll mean that he doesn't have money to buy 6000 new grenades, like he had for the beginning of this run. Of course, if that's the case, I expect to see a new character without the dependants surfacing soon.

  -kv

[Gabriel]

Maybe he's banded? Nice dark secret to have in the Arc. Has anyone ever seen him without his shirt on?

Gabriel

[kv]

No, his dark secret is that he's married and has two kids.

I guess the dark secret is from them, because he doesn't want them to know that he's really a shadowrunner. Or mabye he doesn't want his enemies to know that he has a family they can kill in retribution. Or maybe it's that he doesn't want his friends to know that he drives a minivan during the week. I'm not sure which part of it is supposed to be a dark secret that would ruin him if he was exposed, but there you have it.

  -kv

[Gabriel]

That seems WAY too mundane for a dark secret. Oh well.

Gabriel

[kv]

I'm hoping Ruski (who is GMing) will take it to him for the Dependant flaw- make him give away all his money for the wife and kids, which would make me feel a little better. I mean, who wouldn't like to see the drekky runner make only 20% of what they are, because he sucks and shouldn't have survived? But, you know, probably will.

  -kv

[Gabriel]

Hey now, I ended up having to borrow money one on run just to buy ammo when I had the Dependant flaw. THAT succkes. And it took me FOREVER to get the 40 karma to buy out of that. Oh, that and a Serious chest wound and about a dozen dead bodies. Oh yeah, and a few new enemies. Oh, and my doss got blown half up. And so did Spirit's.

When I get rid of a Flaw, I REALLY make it believable.

By the way, has Ruski imposed the background count rules on your mages/shamans while you are all inside the Arc? At the moment, the BG hovers between 4 & 5. In fact, If I had ever gotten the chance to use that setting in my games, I was going to have the BG count last at a permanent 2/3 pretty much forever. Even with the Renracu geomancers and Shinto Priests cleansing it, You don't get rid of taht much concentrated evil mojo in less than a generation.

Gabriel

[kv]

Ruski doesn't know the magic system very well, which is kind of why I wanted to run a mage character- so we would all get comfortable with it. But now I'm comfortable with it, and he's still asking me for rules.

That's a long way of saying that No, we haven't kept track of the background count in the arcology. Does that background count work against banded mages, or just outside influences?

  -kv

[Gabriel]

Banded mages have become atuned to it. So if you are a mind-controlled, toxic mage, then you should have no problem. But if you are not, then you have to add a +4 TN to everything you do magic-wise. And I forget how it affects astral perception, but I know that is dicey too. Think about trying to go astral at Auschtwitz (sp) and getting all of that horror, pain, and hopelessness all hitting your astral form at once. That's what you can expect in the Arcology at the time of the run. YOu should read up on it. I believe all of that is covered in MitS.

Gabriel

[kv]

Yeah, I read about the aspected background counts in there, too. Also in Salt Lake (from all the Mormons!) and the Vatican.

How does background count affect astrally percieving, though? I wasn't aware it had any effect there.

  -kv

[Gabriel]

It certainly has an effect, that's why if you go astral in orbit (Rating 10 Background Count = Astral Warp) you're mage/shaman can go berserk, freak out, kill everyone, or just die of a siezure. I forget the actual effect (and am too lazy to check at the moment) but I'm thinking it raises the TN for any astral perception tests like tracking or assensing. But personally, I would impose some extra modifiers for getting all freaked out by the astral pollution all aroud you. All that negative emotion has to freak out a normal mage.

Gabriel