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[Capt_North]

Also, i should say i dont expect the tank to go cause some punk with a pocket derringer nailed you in just the right place. but same time its kinda of rediculous... ridiculas... ..... what ever the heck word im thinking of:P to think that if you get nailed by a bullet that can punch through you and several other people that if it hits the tank its going to do nothing more then go "oops! i've been hit. better turn off!" and not work till you get a tech to look at it and fix it,

Best laid plans of Mice and Men.
Expect the Worse,
What ever can go wrong will go wrong,
all of these things are runners have to expect while running, and if you give something to go wrong you have to expect it to happen. a simple way to prevent it from happening is some good armor over your chest, heck, even add a plate right over where the tank sits, some good level bone lacing or whatever. Make them think, "ok.. what can go wrong with this little peice of metal". its the ST/DM/guy who runs stuff job to throw curves at people to make them think, to think of what happens when character starts getting some bad luck. im not saying its their job to do all they can to slag the character, but make them think on their toes, and plan ahead, behind, left, right, up, down, and on every other axis there is. again Drek Happens. Happens in every day life, and especially with dice i've found. So make them think twice before they just grab a peice of cyber for no reason, or buy a grenade, or a heavy gun that could be used to shoot down the MIR space station. or even if they decide, "i dont need armor" or "one clip should last me the run"

Thats something that the people i ran the FF game with liked, i had them keep on their toes and think (it also kept idiots out of the game as well, something i liked, players liked having new ones join cause as the old saying goes, "You only have to outrun one person" and if said person is a troll with enough metal in them they make the black top of the roads creek with each step (seriously, some guy managed to have his character to the point where he had about 0.01 essence left) they make a handy sheild (reduced speed due to weight kept him in behind the group, which he was fine with, kept bragging he saved their asses when he was one who triggered most alarms, my fave was when stars finally IDed the guy and came ready with HMG's mounted on vechiles(sp?))

Not to say that these same people had complaints about how i ran things, i'll admit i get a bit excess in my "making them think ahead" and what not, but lotta them liked their chars having to actually work to get ahead.

....... Tangent detected, shutting down.

heh, so theres my words for now... i'll post more when i remember what i was writing about and what my point was...

[Ruski]

Well, as a game system; I'm just saying in the intrest of keeping it ballanced.
and for gernades; there's no built in game mechanics for walking arround with a backpack full of gernades and having one cook off if you get hit. that was my point.

you could be wearing them as ear-rings, there's not a 'equipment chance to be hit' unless the GM makes up some half-assed on the spot rule, but they went to elaborate lengths to make sure they could hit the air-tank inside you and have it explode.

-RuskiFace the Pirate

[Capt_North]

First off.. i'd think grenade earrings might hurt a little.. thats good bit of weight to be hanging off the ears..

and hell, if your dumb enough to hang grenades off your ears i'd say they deserve to be viable targets.. though been so long since played or really checked over i'm not sure on called shot rules.. and again, not saying the tank should blow cause it got knicked, nor should grenades, if its hit with a normal bullet from a fair distance away so theres nothing on it to ignite the powder or such theres little chance the grenade is actually going to blow, maybe tear apart and spray person with contents, possibly pull an ear off, or a large chunk.

and again my original thing was, "What would it take to make one blow, what kind of roll" which was answered.

and again, to keeping things balanced, its always gonna be unbalanced. Some players are going to do better then others cause they know how to effectivly do things while others sit on their thumbs and twiddle their arses. and Runners have to go against Corp Security systems, guards, and what ever else, if it was balanced there wouldnt be much thrill, or at least as much.

Hell, i hate getting cacked when i play, but i have more fun when im playing the underdog so to speak than when im on equal grounds. and in the end, Balance comes from the players and how they play. The big Cthulu thing i was talking about, those creatures are hard to kill, but doesnt make them impossible, throw in a gun monkey and watch them waste their ammo giving said creature  only a few scratches. Throw in some one who thinks and they might try and capture one the creatures, contain, and find out what works best on it.

One char could have enough arms and armor to take on Stars while going on a run, but be as useful as a peice of paper as armor in a fight because they dont know to do anything more then "duh.. i shoot at them" (had one guy say that, though the Duh was the sarcastic sort) and shooting at them did nothing. Smart player looked around and spotted steam pipe, switched to some AP rounds for her pistol, pumped a couple rounds in, openned it up and several others and smoked them with steam (really high pressure and high temp steam can cut through lotta stuff easily), and even if not you still got some superheated gas/liquid spraying allaround you, and enless you got a complete enclosure suit with life support and such keeping you seperate from outside, your fragged.


... Frak. not only a tangent that time, but i do beleive i started ranting as well... well, i hope someone can pick something useful or understandable out of all of that...

[Retread]

AHEM!


Grenades themselves do not explode from ballistic damage. They explode as a result of incendiary or electrical damage, this includes: Fireballs, Incendiary Grenades, Fire Elementals, Lightning bolts, Taser Fire, etc. Roll 2d6 in the case of incendiary damage to determine if the attack causes "secondary damage" If the wound dealt primarily is only Light, do not check for secondary damage, subtract 4 from the result if the attack does Moderate damage, 2 if Serious, and use the actual result if the damage is Deadly. If the number rolled is greater than the object resistance rating of the object in question then the object ignites. Grenades and ammunition have an Object Resistance rating of 5 or 6. High-tech detonators and smart-mines have an Object resistance of 7 or higher. C4 is completely stable and does not explode from incendiary damage. If taking electrical damage, roll 1d6. On a result of 1, C4, C8, and C12 hit the right voltage and KABOOM! Clothes and gear that start on fire deal damage every turn until they are put out. (Expend A Free action to Drop prone and another complex action to roll around and expend combat pool against a target number equal to the Power of the recurring flame damage. Every success further reduces the power until the power is 0. The flames gain 2 power every turn left blazing.)

To handle exlosions at ground zero use the optional explosives rules: Get the distance to the target(s) subtracting power based on the radius, then roll half the leftover power as "attack dice" against a target number of 4. Every two successes stages the damage up one level.

[Gabriel]

Or for brevities sake, if you get hit in the granade, you blow up. Because let's face it, a grenade, ANY GRENADE, going off while strapped to your chest is going to kill you. That's all there is to it.

Gabriel

[Ruski]

Yea. Gernades are fun.

-RuskiFace the Pirate

[Retread]

Well, that's the effect from splash damage. If you make a called shot at a grenade and hit it, then there's still a chance it might not explode. Keep in mind, that grenades aren't designed to blow up without their detonator starting it. Of course, if you have some WWII era grenades, you deserve to have them blow up in your face. Spring for some of those new Ares PE or IPE explosives; they're more stable anyway.

[Ruski]

mostly at that point, it's up to the GM to take care of the PC who feels the need to carry a backpack filled with old gernades through the burning warehouse.

-RuskiFace the Pirate

[Capt_North]

One other fun thing about old grenades, having lots of friends in diffrent branches of the military they explained Grenade Training, one of these being Cooking off grenades.

Most grenades have a 4-5 second fuse before they blow, but on some ther eis a small problem, if a grenade is shook up to much it can disrupt the fuse, causing it to either gain time before it blows, Or, take time away from the fuse. Commonly a hated thing about training as most have told me.. Yet another reason to spring that little extra nuyen for some newer grenades...

[Ruski]

I had a friend who went through basic.

aparently they have you throw dummy gernades for like three days, letting everyone get use to pulling the pin and pitching them, makeing sure they don't drop them, that the get enough distance, etc.

aparently when they switch to live gernades, EVERYONE gains 10 yards on their best throw.

-RuskiFace the Pirate

[Capt_North]

hehe, i cant imagine why.....

ALso, while i was blowing steam earlier in the back yard in my favorite way, a paintball gun, i had a rather nasty idea... There are plenty of fast acting contact poisons out there in the SR verse...... how hard would it be to fill a paintball with a lethal amount and use that to splat someone.. Literally. In addition, imagine how long it would take for people to really figure out whats going on. get something thats gonna take a while to kick in with little signs of being dosed, then suddenly the person keels over later without warning. Today's paintballs arent that impressive for a long range strike on a person, but im sure SR has enough tech to make a modern day paintball gun look like little more then a plastic straw blow gun with a crack in the side..

[ROOTless]

Best thing is, it doesn't even have to normally be a contact poison. DMSO get's it through the skin for you. Assuming it's not positively huge molecules.

[Capt_North]

Also, if you can hit some bare Actual skin, (nail them in fore head, arm, or where ever) a paintball can actually open them up a bit and get them bleeding so the poison can get into the body course, if they have armor on, or even just some decent leathers, not gonna have much luck..

[Gabriel]

They have this tech in the game. I use it as my primary weapon, with my secondary weapon being a Predator II with APDS ammo. The thing is, I don't like killing anyone for no good reason. Like security guards are going to be THAT dedicated to they're corp or mall or Stuffer Shack. These slags are just rying to get by same as me, and they don't deserve to die. So, get yourself and Ares Super Squirt II (Man and Machine under the chmical section) or get yourself some gell rounds filled with your toxic de jour. The Super Squirt has limited range, but the DMSO make sure your chemicals are absorbed nice and fast. I tend to mix mine with Gamm Scopolomine, which acts as a paralytic and breaks down into a truth agent. You paralyze someone, the follw it up with a tranq patch when the action dies down and when he comes to, he wants to tell you everything he knows.

Gotta love the shadows.

Gabriel

[Capt_North]

Nice, but one thing bout a paintball gun is how descrete(sp?) it is, no need for silencer, ammo is cheap, and lot of stores can refill a CO2 for cheap. Plus when someone gets nailed with a paintball they freak, but not in the manor of freak you get with a gel bullet or other guns like that. Ya, they may not take kindly and such, but not many will suspect getting poisoned from a paintball. Would make fairly good quiet hit and last for a while before someone catches on. Course, might be something you want to keep quiet yourself, cause who wants to be known for Gacking people with a paintball gun....