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[ROOTless]

Yeah, cept now its not just your gun, but your arm being controlled wirelessly. So less you just want them to hang limp at your sides while your running around..

Doesn't that just make my point so much more unsubtle? why would anyone design or accept an arm that subject to BSoD? Let it update in a docking station at home. It doesn't need to be online while it's in use.

[Capt_North]

Yeah, cept now its not just your gun, but your arm being controlled wirelessly. So less you just want them to hang limp at your sides while your running around..

Doesn't that just make my point so much more unsubtle? why would anyone design or accept an arm that subject to BSoD? Let it update in a docking station at home. It doesn't need to be online while it's in use.

The more I hear the more it sounds like some special mods are needed now especially to compensate for these issues.

And changes in magic? Or still the same?

Yup. Its a general story telling fail to me. could have been handled so much better.

And sadly, no idea on magic. never was quiet my thing aside from the rare physad..

[APOCALYPSE]

Yeah, cept now its not just your gun, but your arm being controlled wirelessly. So less you just want them to hang limp at your sides while your running around..

Doesn't that just make my point so much more unsubtle? why would anyone design or accept an arm that subject to BSoD? Let it update in a docking station at home. It doesn't need to be online while it's in use.

For some reason this made me laugh too much. Probably because I can imagine it. Just charge and use if. Who’s cares if online or not. 

[Capt_North]

But! But! But!!! Think of all the nuyen youll save being able to update in the go without having to make a doc appointment to update the drivers!!

[Zone]

Hopefully she drops back in as wouldn’t mind to hear her thoughts.

I'm here! I'm here! It's not like I was off somewhere ditching body parts or hiding from Interpol!

Like you I am out of practice with RP games.  I know Huny and I dissected the newer version(s) of SR at some point, but I don't have the near eidetic memory that he has, so I'll touch base with him and and try and get you some specific critiques rather that just a vague and general distaste for the overhauls. 

[APOCALYPSE]

Hopefully she drops back in as wouldn’t mind to hear her thoughts.

Glad to see you are still here. No worries. I can’t tell you how exciting it has been to read these books again little by little. Look forward to comments when you have time.

I'm here! I'm here! It's not like I was off somewhere ditching body parts or hiding from Interpol!

Like you I am out of practice with RP games.  I know Huny and I dissected the newer version(s) of SR at some point, but I don't have the near eidetic memory that he has, so I'll touch base with him and and try and get you some specific critiques rather that just a vague and general distaste for the overhauls.

[ROOTless]

If you do go with the 2nd edition in the end, please get Virtual Realities 2.0!
It re-writes how the matrix works completely, and the result is much more realistic as well as smoother and more elegant.
This is also the system they went with in 3rd edition.

[APOCALYPSE]

I started with 2nd. Just got it yesterday so will start reading soon.
Plus just go the first three novels as I remember they were a great read.

And to think that it led me back after we bought a board game.
We got Shadowrun Crossfire.
It’s a deck builder and the Shadowrun theme probably isn’t necessary to play but it just enhances the game for fans (like us). Only played once so far but it was fun all in all. And most importantly opens the door a bit for my better half.

I plan to read Matrix 2.0 eventually but got a ways to go. But will get it done again.

[ROOTless]

Enjoy!

[Ingo Monk]

Here's my take:

SR1
The original gangster. I have the core book but I've never actually played it.

SR2
The one that started it for me, fond memories of my youth. Due to inexperience of my youth (I had only played AD&D 2nd prior to this) I didn't find anything wrong with the system.

SR3
Like SR2 but better. It was super easy to min/max and break the game though... I've had to deal with a few players with " GM Tools^TM " (i.e. you wake up naked, all your gear is gone) lol

SR4
My group played this version a lot, it simplified and streamlined stuff so the mechanics went a lot faster and smoother. I don't like how deckers basically ceased to exist in the traditional sense, replaced with on-the-fly hacking. My group was never into decking though as in previous versions taking time out of a game so a decker could do their thing ended up boring everyone else. This hacking model made it so you could use that mechanic during combat to do interesting things.
Examples:

• Hacking someone's cyber eyes to blind them by turning them off
• Hacking someone's cyber eyes to adjust the video feed so they'd shoot their friend instead of one of the player characters
• Hacking a smartgun link to eject a magazine
• Hacking a commlink to turn on Augmented Reality overlay so in combat their vision would be obstructed by all the advertisements floating in AR (effectively giving the player character cover bonuses)

Hacking was fun, but didn't feel true to Shadowrun, not that my group cared that much.

SR5
I've got a virtual copy of the core book and I've read through it but I've never actually played it. It seems to streamline the game system even more than SR4 to make it faster, brought back decking, but feels like it was missing some of the gritty-ness of SR somehow.

SR6
I've only read bad things


Summary
If I were to summarize (and also point out it's been like 10 years since I've played a game of SR), I think SR4 ended up being my favorite. I felt like the gritty SR-ness with the mechanics flow balanced well for overall fun. Since my gaming group at the time had no love for decking the hacking model actually added to the game for them.

[APOCALYPSE]

This is a great explanation and helpful.
After hearing so far then think I’m going to start back with 2nd edition then slowly work my way up to the new one.
I’m not in a hurry and see most of the books are pretty reasonable.
Plus got a great online source thanks to a pub chummer.

I’ll keep you posted as I get back into this.

[Zone]

Going to join the 2/3 camp, You can cherry pick these and basically you get the game it should be. I did play 4 once but it did not blow my skirt up (Where is Gabe when I drop lines like that).  My spouse hates all the 4 and up redos and points at 5 as a hot mess, the magic system gives him hives.  I can't say, not having read the book, but take it as you wish. Neither of us knows anything about 6 but I found a review of it for you: https://www.geeknative.com/68602/it-says-shadowrun-on-the-cover-a-review-of-shadowrun-6e/

[APOCALYPSE]

Has Gabe frequented recently? Curious how that guy has been doing.

Seems the consensus on 6th is pretty consistent. I’ve been combing various places and most say about the same. A couple good things but most bad. However, I got to say that the “Purple” comment was the first that I had read and now I can see it....

[ROOTless]

Has Gabe frequented recently? Curious how that guy has been doing.

Haven't seen him in a while.

As for the editions thing...
In 3rd (and to a slightly lesser extent 2nd), there was a very healthy principle: You always know how many dice you have. What varies is the Target Number. 4th and later editions, this was thrown out with the bathwater. And I tend to believe this was an absolutely horrible game design decision, and that whomever made that decision, should've lost the SR license, right then and there.

[Ingo Monk]

Has Gabe frequented recently? Curious how that guy has been doing.

Haven't seen him in a while.

As for the editions thing...
In 3rd (and to a slightly lesser extent 2nd), there was a very healthy principle: You always know how many dice you have. What varies is the Target Number. 4th and later editions, this was thrown out with the bathwater. And I tend to believe this was an absolutely horrible game design decision, and that whomever made that decision, should've lost the SR license, right then and there.

That's an excellent point about the adjusting target numbers vs adjusting dice pools.

I recall in SR2 there were dice pools which were calculated based on stats/skills that you could allocate per combat turn (not round). You still rolled dice based on your skills, but you could focus more on attack or defense, spell casting or drain, etc. by adjusting your skill pool with these calculated pools (which for the life of me I can't recall the name of). Exploding 6's were required in a lot of scenarios. Attributes were really just there as limiters to skills and defining karma costs, and only really used with direct tests (i.e. Body to resist damage, Strength to lift something).

In SR3 they did away with this calculated dice pool model, dice pools were just stat + skill IIRC. There was still adjusting target numbers but the system was more straightforward than SR2.

SR4 basically took SR3's system, removed the adjusting target numbers (essentially TN is always 5), and test modifiers either added or removed dice from your pool, which means you sometimes needed a lot of D6's and by nature there were a lot of opposed tests. As ROOT is pointing out, it took away from some of the essence of SR. The main reason I liked it is because it made being a GM way easier... just add or remove dice from the player or your pool to adjust difficulty. In SR3 I found myself referencing the charts on the GM screen often while in SR4 I found myself just calling out plus or minus dice to the players.

Essentially, with each new edition the required amount of math was reduced... which means SR6 at this point is Kindergarten level math?



Gabe hasn't posted since 2007, and hasn't logged in since 2011 or so. I used to have him as a friend on Facebook but I just looked and I don't see him anymore. Last I recall he was still on the east coast of the US and had gotten married.