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Author Topic: Welcome to Denver (OOC)  (Read 54243 times)

bull30548

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #195 on: April 12, 2012, 08:30:59 PM »

I didn't see any description stating an effect on spells cast like that bu I know I just flared on the physical plane like a beacon as a Mage.  I might still be suffering under the effects of it don't know.  I should of known better it always worked for Doc I almost never suffered from physical drain when I overcasted.  Electronic dice are my enemy  :P
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Ingo Monk

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #196 on: April 16, 2012, 10:43:00 AM »

I didn't see any description stating an effect on spells cast like that bu I know I just flared on the physical plane like a beacon as a Mage.  I might still be suffering under the effects of it don't know.  I should of known better it always worked for Doc I almost never suffered from physical drain when I overcasted.  Electronic dice are my enemy  :P

From what I recall, when using magic there's no manifestation on the physical plan at all unless it's a "Physical" spell.  A good example is the Fireball/Flamethrower Manipulation spells.  When you cast fireball, a ball of fire explodes from where you want it to, or for flavor you can "throw" the ball like D&D mages did.  Flamethrower looks like flames literally emitting from your hands in a stream, just like if you had a flamethrower.

Another difference is Manabolt/Ball and Powerbolt/Ball.  Mana spells only affect living things, so when they go off the living things affected show the effects in the area.  Obviously this is kind of boring, or cool, to have a bunch of people fall down for no reason.  So you can flavor it all you'd like ("a halo of blue energy erupts from his head and he collapses").  Powerbolt/Ball is a physical spell that produces physical energy.  This also affects anything on the physical plane.  But again, the spell going off doesn't necessarily have any physical manifestation, but it's very easy to see where it went off since it affects everything in its radius.  Essentially, a Powerball will look like a bomb went off, minus the flames.  If you've watched "Mythbusters" on TV, think of their slow motion captured explosions.  A power ball is like that shockwave that goes off right before the rest of the explosive fire does.  In the game, this would smash/crush things, throw bodies from the epicenter of the blast, etc.  In my games I always have people roll knock-down tests when they're hit by a powerball, critical failures means they get thrown.  Keep in mind that powerball is a combat spell, whereas fireball is a manipulation spell.  The difference between the two is that combat spells affect everyone/thing in the radius, and a manipulation spell first manifests into existence then affects the target.  So in the case of the Fireball spell, a person behind a car would get to use the car as cover versus the spell.  In the same scenario, both the car and the person behind it would take full damage from the powerball.

As far as the caster goes, when they're casing spells you can't tell.  Unless of course they have a geas where they need to chant/dance/move their hands, etc.  It's described in SR2 that Shamans will have a "mask" that appears as a silhouette that matches their totem, but they don't necessarily have to do anything for the spell to go off. 

Again this is all literal "by the rules" descriptions.  I like how this works in SR because sometimes you can never tell who the mage is... which is why "geek the mage" is important.  I've been wanting to use a mage sniper as a bad guy on my runs for a long time, in essence a mage with a really nice set of binoculars casting manabolts at people.  The spells are "Line of Sight" so any optical vision magnification is allowed.  How messed up is that?   ;D

The offside of this is that magic in SR can be boring to watch since in literal terms you don't really see anything unless you're watching astral.  So, flavor as needed for fun and profit!
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kv

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #197 on: April 19, 2012, 06:01:58 PM »

I'll have to change what I was planning for a much less 'zowie' response... and then say 'man, if you were in the Astral, you would see all kinds of awesome!'

That's okay, though. It's a good detail to know. I'll try and get on to post tonight, but I can't make any promises (date night with Mrs. Vid).

  -kv
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kv

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #198 on: April 20, 2012, 11:16:59 AM »

You may have noticed that I didn't get a chance to post last night (per date night with Mrs. Vid), but I did see Lockout (the new Sci-Fi movie based on a story by Luc Besson- the guy who did 5th Element), and it was very dirty and shadow-run-y. Made me happy.

Seriously, though, someone hacked that dialogue out with a machete. Some of the editing, too. Otherwise, good movie, with a bunch of good surprises in it!

I'll be on all this weekend, and get some post-zilla for you guys (and gals).

  - kv
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 11:04:18 PM by Kid_Vid »
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"There are three rules to surviving a gun fight.
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   If you can do that, you can survive."
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bull30548

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #199 on: April 24, 2012, 11:39:22 PM »

Did you mean to say he was actively defending? Because the rules say that if he was actively defending others that is cool.  If he wasn't then the spell wouldn't of affected him but it still wreck his friend (friends when I declared casting it).  That is all I want for clarification on that.  Anyway my one turn in this round is done.  Next round is still going to be time to escape.
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Ingo Monk

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #200 on: April 25, 2012, 10:09:25 AM »

I'll have to change what I was planning for a much less 'zowie' response... and then say 'man, if you were in the Astral, you would see all kinds of awesome!'

That's okay, though. It's a good detail to know. I'll try and get on to post tonight, but I can't make any promises (date night with Mrs. Vid).

  -kv

Here's an explanation pulled from SR4A:
Quote from: SR4A-pg179
Noticing Magic
Just how obvious are magical skills? Not very, since most spells and spirits have little, if any,
visible effect in the physical world (unless the magician prefers to have flashy effects, or her
tradition calls for it). An observer has to notice the magician’s intense look of concentration,
whispered incantations, and small gestures. Magicians of some traditions display a more
visible change when practicing magic known as the shamanic mask. The shamanic mask
typically changes the magician’s features temporarily to display characteristics appropriate to
her mentor spirit or tradition—an eagle shaman, for example, might seem to have feathers
or beaklike features while spellcasting or summoning.
Noticing if someone is using a magical skill requires a Perception Test (p. 135) with a
threshold equal to 6 minus the magic’s Force. More powerful magic is easier to spot with
the gathered mana normally appearing as a disturbance or glowing aura in the air around the
caster. The gamemaster should apply additional modifiers as appropriate, or if the perceiver
is Awakened themselves (+2 dice), astrally perceiving (+2 dice), or if a shamanic mask is
evident (+2 dice).
Note it doesn't discuss physical manipulation spells like I talked about earlier, that bit of info was from my understanding from SR2 and SR3.  It makes sense it would be the same in SR4.  A hellhound or a dragon breathing fire is essentially casting an innate Flamethrower spell ;)


And in response to Bull:
Did you mean to say he was actively defending? Because the rules say that if he was actively defending others that is cool.  If he wasn't then the spell wouldn't of affected him but it still wreck his friend (friends when I declared casting it).  That is all I want for clarification on that.  Anyway my one turn in this round is done.  Next round is still going to be time to escape.
Here's the excerpt from the book on what Bull is talking about:
Quote from: SR4A-pg185
Spell Defense
A magician can use Counterspelling to defend herself and others
against a spell being cast. To do this, the magician must spend a Free
Action and declare who she is protecting. If Counterspelling was not
declared in advance, it may not be used to defend others, unless the
magician has delayed her action (see Delayed Actions, p. 145). A protected
character must also stay within the magician’s line of sight in
order for Counterspelling to be used. Note that a magician can always
use Counterspelling to defend herself, unless surprised.
It's a Free action to use Counterspelling, so the shaman could have easily declared it before they blew the front of the store open (especially since their initiative basically started before the new front door was made).  Heck, he could have been the one that did it with a Powerball or something.  However, Counterspelling does not stop Kinsey's spell from going off, it only provides protection to the Shaman and any his boys he can see (if he declared he was protecting them).  I don't like the use of the term "Counterspelling" here, as the term itself implies that it's stopping the spell when in fact the skill only gives you bonus dice for spell defense/resistance.
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kv

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #201 on: April 25, 2012, 11:12:41 AM »

Yes, Fornis was actively counterspelling, defending the group as a whole; that's why he's here (counterspelling is one of his best skills).

It may have been my overlap from 1/2/3/4th Shadowrun, but I thought when you matched the number of spells with counterspelling, you effectively killed the spell? I guess everyone can try to resist 6 mana, too, but that was my understanding.

Quote
Also, unfortunately, Zone and Ingo have crossed paths at a full sprint. I'm going to need some sort of roll to avoid knockdown: Dodge (2), Gymnastics (2), Running (2), or Unarmed Combat(2)... or another skill that I'm not thinking of, but will probably require an additional success to work.
Edit: Oh, Ingo, I'm not asking you to take an extra action- I'm just asking for an extra roll for mechanic's sake, because you two crossed paths. You honestly don't have any of those skills? I was saying that any of them would be fine with me, and if you had another suggestion, I'd be willing to hear it (like a perception check to time a jump to avoid Sundance), but that it would be more difficult, probably Threshold (3) or so. If you have Dodge, Gymnastics, Running, or Unarmed Combat, use those skills; and if you don't have any of those skills, I think we've identified a flaw in your character. :D

  - kv
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 11:16:27 AM by Kid_Vid »
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"There are three rules to surviving a gun fight.
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   If you can do that, you can survive."
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                                (Mercury's Father)

Ingo Monk

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #202 on: April 25, 2012, 12:41:53 PM »

Oh ok, I have dodge.  I'll roll it, though that site is a bit weird from work.  Once I get results I'll edit my post.
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bull30548

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #203 on: April 25, 2012, 06:39:18 PM »

Yeah I don't like the rule too much cause the thing of it is.  Say we are running in a group.  I allocate spell defense to the group and that is all I have to state.  There no magical hint that I am doing it, there no having to constantly restart it, and as long as they stay in line of sight they get full defense.  Oh and I can cast spells or attack normally and it does not affect my actions during game.  And no time limit either just limited range limit of keeping everybody in sight.
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kv

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #204 on: April 25, 2012, 07:04:31 PM »

I think the idea is that it keeps your party from getting one-shot nuked by a wizard with a spyglass or a pair of binoculars.

I'll read over the books tonight, but my guts thinks Ingo is right, and it's jsut a bonus to the defense roll. If that's the case, they all still have to make will checks to resist the damage, and it'll probably mean a couple of them are dead by the time this round is over.

Okay, so a little research in, and I found this on the Catalyst Game Labs SR4 FAQ, under the heading 'Counterspelling':
The player of the magician providing Spell Defense rolls the Counterspelling dice first, and each character receives that many hits on their Resistance Test.
The way I'm reading that sentence confirms that Ingo was right, and I'll modify the post accordingly.

Sorry, that was my mistake. I don't have too much id to admit I was wrong.

  - kv
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"There are three rules to surviving a gun fight.
1) Shoot First
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3) Shoot last
   If you can do that, you can survive."
                                 -Samus Bravo
                                (Mercury's Father)

Ingo Monk

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #205 on: April 25, 2012, 11:40:46 PM »

Even though I haven't run a game in like 6 years, I still read and reread the books every now and then.  I've had too many people try to rules lawyer me ;)

My brother is running a game in which I'm playing (hooray!!!), and some of the guys ask me questions rather than looking it up in the book hahaha
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kv

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #206 on: April 27, 2012, 10:42:44 AM »

Sometimes, my love of playing lots of different games (and multiple editions of the same game) make my head all full of wonky rules. It's great to have someone we can turn to as an authority, and I'm glad to have someone who can help out with rules calls.

I appreciate the assistance, Ingo.

Also, I have some bad news- the doorway you're sprinting toward is locked.

  - kv
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"There are three rules to surviving a gun fight.
1) Shoot First
2) Shoot More
3) Shoot last
   If you can do that, you can survive."
                                 -Samus Bravo
                                (Mercury's Father)

Ruski

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #207 on: April 27, 2012, 11:04:54 AM »

ooohhh... thats going to hurt.
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Ingo Monk

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #208 on: April 27, 2012, 04:29:39 PM »

Holy locked door batman!  Looks like I'm going to get shot as a heap on the floor!  It also looks like I'm not going to get to do anything related to the combat bahahahah!
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bull30548

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Re: Welcome to Denver (OOC)
« Reply #209 on: April 28, 2012, 12:28:11 AM »

Quick Ingo dodge the door.

Anyway right now I am running a Pathfinder game our first long term game with this system.  While similar to DnD 3.5 it has significant differences I am finding.  So now I sit at home and read and reread sections so I can better implement them in the game.  I feel bad for the next guy after me cause he's going to go, "Hey how does this work?" And my response is "Beats me I am just a player.".  Mainly for the most part cause that pretty much what my players are doing to me.  As GM I am god and rules master.  I try to stick as close to the rules as possible that wy I don't have to remember anything I may have changed from the book.  And anybody can go, "Hey, you did this wrong." Though I will be starting to enforce my little rule of waiting until after the game before you call me on something.  Damn near drove me and another player to slapping somebody last game.
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