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[bull30548]

I am going to post over here instead of the game thread cause well it's the game thread. 

Armor is your friend doesn't matter if you are a Rigger or a mage armor is going to save your life.  Now if you an uber powerful mage you can whip up non cumbersome armor on both sides of the board at 5/5 without breaking too much of a sweat but like all magic it is sustained.  Most of the time you are going with the classic armor that exists in real life (unless your an adept).  So the one set of armor you want every time (and I recommend at least 3 sets for the purpose of one going to be in the shop probably) Form fitting armor full set (Arsenal book) you get a 6/2 right out the gate.  It does not count against the stacking rules so whatever you put on top of it stacks with it.  The Explorer's jumpsuit from main rules is the best choice with 6/6 which will put you at 12/8 which is about the best you are going to get. 

So why in the world isn't everybody doing this?  Well to be perfectly honest most shadowrunners go for the first one and then go with their personal style with the second one.  A bunch of guys walking in the Urban Explorer latest line all at the same time looks a bit suspicious.  Sometimes (actually a lot of the time) the armor has to fit the situation or presentation.  My rigger got away with the urban explorer often cause he was a rigger.  He had his nice suits for meetings but usually I was geared up like that.  My adept was very into ancient Japan culture so he wore kimonos (armored of course but not as good as the rigger).  Doc was a very stylish dresser so he wore suits and nice clothes a lot.  He actually had Armor to cast when the time came and would use it often.

So you got to go with the flow honestly.  If all your armor is just jumpsuits then you are demonstrating a one trick pony type of character rather than someone who is going to adapt to the situation.  It shows a bit of professionalism when trying to sell one self.  Sometimes it isn't what you say or how you say it that gets you the job.  It is the style you deliver it to the client.  That is why Face characters are getting a lot more emphasis in the books.  He/she is going to be the character that gets you the job more often then the intimidating troll with the panther cannon.

Also the other added benefit of having different styles of armor is that you can go to a run or a party and probably have something to wear.  I made the mistake of not having multiple attires with my very first character.  It was a weapon specialist who had his own shop.  I only had a jumpsuit so I had to pull off some major charisma checks to get into Dante's Inferno.

[Yogi]

Good points Bull. 

Actually the FFBA line of armors count only half their armor rating when calculating the amount of armor worn.  That same FFBA full suit that is 6/2 for ratings is counted as 3/1 for armor encumbrance. 

Scarlet wears a FFBA half suit 4/1.  Added with either her lined coat or armor vest 6/4. Gives her a armor rating of 10/5.  But the FFBA counts as 2/1 for armor encumbrance. 

FFBA is the way to go. 

[Zone]

I should apologize for my lackluster performance on the shack run...pbp is not, apparently, my forte, no tension to play off, I'm much better at table top .  Please feel free to use Sundance as an NPC if you need a weapons specialist, her stats are posted

[bull30548]

It was a Zone I saw her she was here.  HEHE.

[Ingo Monk]

Split and merged Kid's post in the RP PBP to this OOC thread.  See it here:

http://ingomonk.bullhonkie.com/forums/index.php?topic=2580.msg72193#msg72193

[Ingo Monk]

Hey Gary,

I was looking at the figures for initiative (since we'll be starting combat soon), and I noticed your post about armoring up. I thought you were just wearing the Armored Jacket and normal clothes, but I saw this:

Square my tab and head back to the apartment. Gear up.

Urban Explorer Jumpsuit w/ helmet (B6/I8)
covered by an Armored Jacket (B8/I6)
quick-draw holster for the Ares Predator IV on the right thigh
extra mags on belt
Gas Mask in its case on the left hip
Metal Restraints on back of belt
all the other combat gear (weapons, ammo, security gear) and a few days clothes staged in a duffle bag (w/shoulder straps) which gets put on like an oversized backpack. The sword handle and stock butt of the shotgun are in quick reach @ the top of the bag. Once across the border the sword will be slung over his left shoulder more or less under the bag to limit casual observation, but still allowing quick reach.

Activate "Chet Manly-security consultant" ID (lvl 4 fake SIN & license) & head for the border.

I included the whole section, so there's some context, but mostly I wanted to mention the armor.
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit w/ helmet (B6/I8)
covered by an Armored Jacket (B8/I6)

Shadowrun's armor stacking rules are a little wonky, but the premise is that you can't just layer on rubber until you look like the Michelin Man without penalties to how quick your character can react. Everyone gets a 'buffer' of Body X 2; in Galbraith's case, that body of 6 gives him 12 points of 'wiggle room' before he starts taking penalties. By comparison, you've got him wearing 14 points of ballistic armor and 14 points of impact armor. That's way over his limit, which would mean he'd have a pretty substantial quickness penalty (which includes everything related to agility and reaction- including his world-class pistols skill and his initiative speed).

Also, the rules say that you only get the full benefit of the layer of armor closest to your skin- everything else gives half value, because the heaviest protection is over the same areas. So even though you'd have major penalties for wearing that much armor, you'd only get the armor rating of B10/I11. Still pretty substantial, but I wanted to make sure you were aware of it.

  - Matt

Armor stacking:

If a character is wearing more than one piece of armor at a time, only
the highest value (for either Ballistic or Impact) applies. Note that
some armor items, like helmets and shields, provide a modifier to the
worn armor rating and so do not count as stacked armor.
Too much armor, however, can slow a character down. If either of
a character’s armor ratings exceeds his Body x 2, apply a –1 modifier
to Agility and Reaction for every 2 points (or fraction thereof ) that
his Body x 2 is exceeded. Note that this may affect Initiative as well. If
a character is wearing multiple armor items, add their ratings together
before comparing to Body.

Jumpsuit: 6/6
+ Helmet: -/+2
Jacket: 8/6

Stacking the jacket over the jumpsuit would give 8/6, which is the same as the jacket by itself (sans leg coverage).  Throwing the helmet (the one designed to go with the jumpsuit, there's another one that gives a +1/+2 which is essentially a riot helmet) on top  bumps it to 8/8. 

Stacking it all together, effectively he has an armor rating of 8/8, with an encumbrance rating of 14/14.  Luckily the rules imply you do the encumbrance calculation based on the highest stat that's over, because it would really suck to have both be over then get a total of -2 instead of just -1 to Agility and Reaction.

[kv]

Okay, Thanks Ingo.

I was trying to find the rules for it, because I was afraid that it would be penalized for both bring over the quickness rating, but a -1 die penalty doesn't seem so bad when you consider that you're wearing a lot of armor.

Zone, no problem. Some people have problems with pacing of PBP, others don't like the text-based approach. No problem, you're more than welcome to hang out and make fun of the other players.

  -kv

[Yogi]

And here is the write up on FFBA from Aresnal page 48

Form-Fitting Body Armor: Form-fitting body armor uses
advanced synthetic materials that breathe and stretch with the
body, and is custom-tailored to each individual wearer. It can
be either worn as standalone armor or beneath other clothing
or armor.
The armor is available in three versions: shirt, half-body suit,
and full-body suit. The shirt offers protection only for the chest
and back. Th e half-body suit covers the torso, groin, and thighs.
The full-body suit covers the entire body, including the extremities,
and comes with gloves, booties, and a hood.
When worn in combination with other pieces of armor, the
form-fit armor rating is added to the other armor’s rating (ignore
the rule that only the highest value applies in the case of form-fitting
armor). When determining encumbrance, however, add only
half the rating (round down) of form-fitting body armor to the
ratings of other armor when comparing them to the wearer’s Body
x 2 (see Armor and Encumbrance, p. 149, SR4).

[Ingo Monk]

Okay, Thanks Ingo.

I was trying to find the rules for it, because I was afraid that it would be penalized for both bring over the quickness rating, but a -1 die penalty doesn't seem so bad when you consider that you're wearing a lot of armor.

...or you could be mean and count both Ballistic and Impact
The text is open for interpretation, it doesn't explicitly say one way or the other, which is why I would use the word "implies".  Another question I have is "how does this affect the stats of a cyberlimb?"  If you have a tweaked out cyber limb with its own stats does the agility modifier affect it?  How about with armor built into the cyber arm?  You could also work around and remove any armor covering the cyber arm, thus leaving it uninhibited. 

And here is the write up on FFBA from Aresnal page 48

I was going to include that, but the character isn't wearing it.  FFBA however is my favorite armor type now, and with rules like that what shadowrunner wouldn't be wearing it?  I think it's now become one of those given pieces of equipment all my characters would have (coming from the min/max character creator side of me).  I haven't made a troll character in a while, I wonder what it would look like with stacked armor...?


-Ingo

[bull30548]

Thought I said that already in my post on armor lol.  So shall we move on to firearms and what ones we like to carry as per our personal preference. 

See I usually lean to pistols because easy to conceal and they usually can pack as much of a punch as a sub-machine gun.  When I need a weapon with more punch I usually go up to a shotgun.  I know it is not a long range weapon either but it hits very hard.  Also I like what was said in "The Expendables", the enemy has always been afraid of noise especially shotguns.  So the scatter shot to keep people's head down or a slug to take the head off.  Shadowrunners are supposed to be subtle being able to bring heavy firepower to bear but more often if you are known for always using it you fall into a niche that isn't useful.

My favorite pistols are the Steyr TMP, Gyrojet pistol, Narcojet pistol, Ares Redline and Remington Roomsweeper.

Shotguns I like Spas-22 and AS-7 are my two weapons of choice for shotguns but I don't rely on those weapons.  The first for concealibility and the second for making everyone duck.

[kv]

Thanks Ingo and Yogi, for weighing in on the armor issue.

I meant to get online this weekend and post, but it topped 105 in Phoenix all weekend, and I decided to just lay around and enjoy air conditioning after staying up late with my brothers to play video games (4-play co-op online!) and then going in to work at 5am to pick up some extra hours and get a job finished before my vacation this week.

I'll be home tonight, and my plan is to devote it to all things Shadowrun, and then I'll be out of town the next couple weekends, so my only posting is going to be during the week and somewhat more sporadic.

Edit: new post is up, enjoy;

Bull, I don't mean anything personal by her words, I just wanted her to get a little defensive and push back, and your character was the easiest to do it against. She's really scared, and I wanted to put that into her tone as a little angry. I thought about putting in something about how she maybe reminded you of one of Doc's other apprentices, but I thought I should ask first. Is that okay with you?

  - kv

[bull30548]

Yep sounds good.

[kv]

I'll give everyone a chance to respond, and then try and post something Thursday morning (the official start of my vacation) before I head out.

  - kv

[kv]

We've got Ruski and Bulletsponge, that's 2 of the 5. Even if you can just post an 'I listen intently but cautiously,' I'd appreciate it.

As of this posting, I need to hear from Ingo, Bull, and Yogi.

  - kv

[Yogi]

I will be posting today.